IronPort-PHdr: A9a23:Ooi5cBU45E/aV1X8lwmI1zgo63nV8Ky4UzF92vMcY9NmaKmn9oWkI
               UreoPVgjVPEWY/W8f0Ch+eF+7v4Vzkm5pCM+GsHbIQKTwUM3McRhAE4AIiaE0z0LOLCaisgG
               sVEW0R59mvhd0NSXtv9NBXJunPnyzkUF13kMBZtYOH8G4rclcOyguK14JDLY0NXnjuyYa9aK
               RKsqwTXudIKiJE4bK02jAbK8TNTY+oD42RuKBqImgrkoMe9+Jk26yNLp/co7NJNS43/dqU8C
               KNCVXEobzxz68rsuh3OCwCI4xPwS00wlRxFS0jf4RXzT9HstCq/tud81CSeN8DsQvY4VGbq6
               aAjUxLuhCodUlxxuGjKlsx9ir5aqxO9tlR+xYDTeoScKPt5eOvUY9obQWNLWssZWTZGB8uwa
               I4GDuxJOug9zcG1pVwVoAO+Qxa2Bezv1hdNgWXw3Ks1yPgoC1uA1wtmAtFP+HXYodPpNbsDB
               Pivxfqtr32LZPdX1DHhrYnQJ0p58LfcAPQqK5OXlRV8XxnIhViRt4H/aimY0u0c9XWd7q9gW
               OOjhmotpht+5DSilaJOwsHEgJwYzlfc+GB32oEwcJe6T1V2ed7iD4FRuCGGH45xWMUjRW5zp
               C8gkPsNvtimf2JZrfZvjw6acPGBf4WSt1jhU/2cOTc+m2hkd7KjrxO1606hzOLnSsCuihBBq
               WxYkZOf0xJFnwyW4c+BRPxn+06n0jvazAHf5NZPJkUsnLbaIZosqlIpvrwUt0mLXjX7nEzny
               rKQdwAk9+mk5uDtb6/p4JORZcdyjUnlP6Iil9baY6xwOxUSX2Wd5eW31aHytUz/TrJQi/Qqk
               67f+JnELMUfr6S9DkdbyIEmoxq4Cj6n1pwfkxxlZBpHfwmKl4ivJEvPL/DkJfK4mVKtljhw2
               /ncZPvqBdPQLTmLkbvse6p8918JzQMyyd5F4JcHb9NJaPn3W0L3qJnZFkpja13yk7uhUo8kk
               N9CCiqVD6SUMb3fqwqS6+YmMq+RYo5QuDv8J/Uh7fP0gjk1lAx4H+Hh0J0JZXS/BvkjLV+eZ
               C+mgNAaHH8K+BUkTePqlHWHViRVZnC9RL41/Gt9A4XgEISJFeXPyPSRmTy2GJFbfDUMCFeXH
               G/oMZqeWvgMdAqXJdVnkzoLTqSoUdVn3hboqQywmN8FZqLEvyYfs5zkzt184ebewAoz+TJDB
               MOYy2iRTmtwkwvkXhcQ26Zy6Qxnx1OKwO5lhf0dFdFS6/5NWAogOtjQwr4yDde6QQ/HctqTL
               TTuCty7HTE8SM4wyN4Scg58HdullBXKwyutBfccibWKAJU+9q+U0WL2Io5xzHPP1a9piFdDI
               IMHLWq9mqt27BTeHabMmkSd0rmwLOESgHKL+2CEwm6D+kpfVU84UKnIW2weelqDrdn94RCnL
               ffmArAmPw1djM+af/ESO5u50BMcHq6lZIiNK3i8kGqxGxuSk6mBaIP7PXgb3WDdBUkIngQZ8
               GyJcwQzVULD6yrTCiJjEVX3bgbi6+57/Tm5SVQ51wHMcFdg2Lqp0hsSn/qdTfwIwrse4mEqr
               HNpHxzuurCeQ8rFvAdncKhGNJkl50xb0GvCqwFnFpmpLqQnmURHNgor4wXh0BJ4DogGms8v5
               iBPrkI6OeeT11VPcCmd1Jb7N+jMK2X8yxuobrbfxlDU1Nv+EkIn7fMirVTlsxq1H1B4tX5gl
               cRWgSP0DnTiCQMTVdfuSB9y+UQm4b7dZSY56sXf0ng+acFcXRfH3MgvBe0q0QqpZY0ZO6TCC
               QygS6Un
IronPort-Data: A9a23:9CHDIqtzDmjAonii/kg3MDTzMefnVPZeMUV32f8akzHdYApBsoF/q
               tZmKTuAP/yMZzHzKN1/bN6+oxlTvJ/Tm4Q2SAtkrno8Fi5GgMeUXt7xwmXYZn7NdJ2dECqLz
               Cm8hv3odp1coqr0/0/1WlTZhSAgk/vOHNIQMcacUghpXwhoVSw9vhxqnu89k+ZAjMOwa++3k
               YuaT/b3Zhn9glaYDkpOs/jY8Ew17Kyr0N8llgVWic5j7Qe2e0Y9Ucp3yZGZdxPQXoRSF+imc
               OfPpJnRErTxpkpF5nuNy94XQ2VSKlLgFVHmZkl+A8BOtiN/Shkaic7XAha8hXB/0F1ll/gpo
               DlEWAfZpQ0BZsUgk8xFO/VU/r0X0aBuoNf6zXaDXcO703+fXHar6K9XJQISI40IwP5+HG133
               KlNQNwNRkjra+Oexbu6TqxznJ1mIpW3eowYvX5kwHfSCvNOrZLrGf2bo48Fmm1q34YSQZ4yZ
               OJBAdZrRBbHeBBXOhEIEpMxnPuAg37ldTxep0mJrLBtpWPUihFyuFToGICNKo3aGZwMxy50o
               Erh73TbExEqLuDPyDmEzl72rfHxvXjkDdd6+LqQr6Y22jV/3Fc7LDQqeGv+hdG9i1WiQN9FN
               QoJ/CtrraUz+EGvRNTnUFu0rRa5UgU0XtNRF6gl8ljIxPaIpQmeAWcAQ3hKb9lOWNIKqSICy
               m3QsN6uLmZWmf6xV3KNzK+dsD+LEH1ARYMdXhMsQQwA6tjlhYg8iBPTU9pueJJZaPWlSFkcJ
               Bja/EADa6UvYd0jjPrkoAiW6964jt2YEV5vv1S/sneNt1shPOaYi5qUBU83BMuswa6cR1iF+
               Wcewo2QsLxIApaKmyiABu4KGdlFBspp0hWN2DaD/LF7r1xBHkJPm6gOu1mSw283aa45lcfBO
               hO7hO+ozMY70IGWRaF2eZmtLM8h0LLtE9/oPtiNMIsWPsgrKlTZpnE+DaJ144wLuBh9+U3YE
               cfLGftA8V5HYUia5GDmGrlBj+FDKt4WnDiLFMCTI+ubPUq2PSbJE9/pwXOBaec26K7snekm2
               4c3Cid+8D0GCLeWSnCPr+Y7dAlWRVBlX8yeg5IMLYarfFE2cFzN/teLntvNjaQ+z/oL/goJl
               1nhMnJlJK3X2SeecFTWNSE4MdsCn/9X9BoGAMDlBn7ws1BLXGplxPt3m0cfFVXmyABi8RKwZ
               /wMesHFHe4WDzqbp3ISap7yqIEkfxOu7e5L0+xJfxBnF6OMhSSQkjMnQucr3CwJFCy2s8Qlv
               7S6jEXQRtweRGyOySoQhO2HlzuMULt0pA62d07PON9Sfkr37IFwcWr6ibkqIKng7PkFKiSyj
               26rPPvAmdTwng==
IronPort-HdrOrdr: A9a23:YTKg/qh+iQzgQRL6ri+Dg7cIyXBQXvkji2hC6mlwRA09TyXqrb
                  HJoB19726JtN9xYgBcpTnkAsO9qBznhPxICOUqTMyftUzdyRGVxeJZnO7fKl/bak7DH4dmvM
                  8KE5SWSueAdWSS5fya3ODSKadG/DDoytHQuQ6T9QYIceioUc1dBsVCZzpz3ncYeOCOP/QEKK
                  Y=
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
            Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.13.0
Content-Language: en-GB
References: <ZMOmcGMzh8nPU//O@polynum.com>
            <15dc4a03-d009-c962-46a4-2d89ef221156@morningstar2.co.uk>
            <ZMPKrCeJr2AtsXgH@polynum.com>
            <86a2e992-9684-127c-046e-0ee4a9c4c3f1@nag.co.uk>
            <ZMPQflz6n5cbEe8f@polynum.com>
            <42b1c81a-269e-6e92-61ae-81309d2f59f0@morningstar2.co.uk>
            <ZMPbRbBvKEsaL3xW@polynum.com>
            <e04314e7-2c7c-9832-4e94-ae6ed63f7953@nag.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Message-ID:  <cdf0f0b4-fec2-db51-36fb-7f578b8bdfcf@morningstar2.co.uk>
Date:         Fri, 28 Jul 2023 16:20:09 +0100
Reply-To:     Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project
              <LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE>
Sender:       Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project <LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE>
From:         Joseph Wright <joseph.wright@MORNINGSTAR2.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
To:           LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE
In-Reply-To:  <e04314e7-2c7c-9832-4e94-ae6ed63f7953@nag.co.uk>
Precedence: list
Envelope-To: <rainer.schoepf@gmx.net>
UI-InboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:DDNQMyP9mhE=;nzRBkDB3I/5AEXZNy7IkUuI5P/z1
 86m0ucx8Cs1G5mbPoWOXhJFG9ilND2W49cDRv6zDcuRfNmEBJylqS8hd3eatVRPY9kLcI4iSK
 EpbZCOSswXClX+RqNl5p1pkfy34kMt2VsFIvDxGoLxM6srZ9dL3VuBr+WvDK9lulvb4UM6Nqs
 uNLe4YjOu3eNlUlC1LWDzJXv+yytG0SQZVJNXcc9Db+b91/+/8UeWoXn2XFzEwOqW+Z64o+I6
 9toK8j/a9h1SNk6cClKcj348dyTRDrKnZhoSt4MQXRCQnFe59Pa+m6o1BG21nTZSPMz0nHsIT
 +gXBwfMZAy0C44LXYuJbCcn2oNAdjm4spLtfd763vVYNpQfZgPbkD8n6PPJY9UDkrcr1nDzPF
 4DDcu/G19Di6m52JW16iex+z6NorHROnMo9Y9qK+5W2mTLAlJ6q55wMYOznh3WvzYMPELPUch
 Wm94LTPW/q2Eucd9G/8tSlg0TCXKrTofYBJwTI610ranR49oLovUMJ0d+CDap85r2B0j2VZjy
 mHrzHmnR/YcZxPiBfZV/hPXu6xKeur8iybeLkjz8urvjKSO4wJtAx7q99IYQbemlvUsQGPDsO
 PGyhhXWg9UNmeFUnHUGT8kci11Lx7VgIMpaz0+nKA3xRKErx11dQIYJLlGL1I7rbYgX/TXVpU
 r5XMBB5B70raDevJLmHYj7nml5I7FMWKDgAubZO+grBzk2zCN07300DV/6xk0YGzW7yj9x8Bq
 ANoHnKZ2EUrWDBh/pktsUJRLdJFxce+MC6QiF+7S0TECfblhTXwl7So7riA/4hKXs4OoXkF8I
 NjmF8AUerDip74Z8ckAljyPqP+/2VD8M5h3Rkp51w0Q7K5c4AP/KU8p6Z46022HhibsnRnPUn
 KcqpOFqkCAItLWBFbgragF2bfsaD4Z0S3O+/ojhV6oUac9EWN0/5zJKOHiz1j+8g5mICISqi1
 LfSBqins4CdFG1OJOtP5foRs6NQ8H1g6AybRAudqrtMBn/ftwuj1/uxfIyRDrz9QGB181k4bp
 q7w8xUZVFUnsH1ZSByc6a3N1XLWhWJVAPC1LbLAeUOw9Nzl3uWr4af3n2ZJYRcm5+L0RmZe3W
 p9NhAAQpvjEVoRvHSc1NWOT5M18gOlmqMTDZA6lWSP/qreNN81HwsBMA+og7AO3sSFLUj3ObS
 4eo5O4ztYALf/Cvl3FO3BeSdC56dg2CQvUjo6NZirG75wCahuiBjUxgZQw3yKa9aF11rw0OFh
 GbsR6ZGnrkncPY4HTr1w4DZn1i6lp1UHjPiY1NeJTfmCBwP0O2CENVwksmQQdzlxdd886rWY/
 9FRKsaVkERndkrGk0Qh37O9yu4L/FODsxVNYYQ4Ov7DQER4LraSD4fL/BCwCYkPM3cXZfaSE6
 o2QnhmvTXVBJDaXfJti79d+vvNK/r6K9iRfwGdcOWny2vvjBpAcOe88GdLZVrD3LQaf42rZn1
 uV3z+57AE+vxMHxQxQK5MmnfR24GYF8R5dDfS1N99np/ntByVwrx94oXsupwcL/ynb9gNoG+Z
 zXuOPMJYQODVR3udqvwwIcQrbaSGvqmRqKGUosffuDq+LGOEHo2cxmJqQa83s54aUJOQGF4sC
 3KeLo54Qmihv5FCKru8WJ+pFvcg34B/akL32BjKYd+RPUwHHSBjiK6R4MfedYL+MHCRbM3JBN
 /t9GazA5kaJbJa7TmPz3S0yzVyoGqYP7Be8bxN41fB485+4VFHsUfkofCACfW4usA51Wqwd6C
 2GsDdcLjy4p5fDxz2HZLuEI6e9uObCPX8zUof6equi9wYnOyGQ5WQ6+yiZlbb6An0weWZpSEh
 wPciMaSlUbdtxVrvopL5Md28ZfwMX7MA45GG0zNpHutPckhi8snEURx4t27n7d1AKsbv6CMT8
 62WwPOCv00Mk6BpYOdMYXHjKTysQutmHytUBmibh/9C9aduXmoFDI2jAFRu/s5tyTF+ltD7XR
 Kz36cM54tcKCO1QeO6oCgaKsDAPOdBV0W5mRKBNClMaCf4rEIamNPuUugwjz7A1mgeqLq4Gyg
 kamL55B/FbzPNDq9I4J6874WbiaodG675qdpTl9agZdjAG/Ybcn8RAyUCGR+kFrYQYvtxv+Ax
 4ZYjn7S+p2lS/O5g8FMTwB7mJ81qDpNehN+3lDC/VD01sNnEkqi/hTIOo8zM1qL80LsRD1CV6
 VyPu1+qt/d/cLFGvNpvuFPvU0jlOPNWgbsB7nawqu88Yu7/97zSpE81tps4b0v71F5qFNY/t4
 FRzNntgF8nIyhK5OvelMhFzYkgwh8wW+2gVEx6zGKstig+8cLngARgBnZ501PXaLW55MTDfmC
 5twenTVBtwQzs/aK4DRdUTyL9ZJd1+of10RdMF2Pe9Nh8f8BYNPqpuiLJxKcRAU6VH/ho5ze0
 I/Xlg+P7AGtL0AKVU9SBvt+FFPq4Upp9YOhaiS62MYSQPNdEWPzoJ5clR69qVIRWbW4zm5mUG
 p4hcvngns9Vmq+Gon4F1mR9Uw79vSJSyutd3mnN5jAaRLQUMxCapkxwYIrvhiM43DF4vQPqF/
 pgZ0nLVAcYJr03a3shwfUNDi4BJtc4WdhH4fopYfbYCW0mkVBX8bGdiharAv9WGMULDSZv5RL
 6u7dlJt1qkfKR0DOobOqIviGcjSEK2V8eAZjgYNXT1KrJyfyG/hLJBBnkrGoJe+xuNeqDtA5Y
 DURQtydaxw8qyqV9hQDJ0Ta4XpJMoitSW4ZHIpWuuf35Nv9+XPoa/cYsnm64X21dsoe5mMXvI
 w6ckPs09fFo1klsYRo9crqon/GAAL6FljdanRqAItPoJjmVFT9O0ppebrMah+puEmaWIWG9/g
 AFIUvRe1t6yUQf0GFik/DUv518vQiNgEJz36UuTaNAWgMtCwoaU+mlvOwMVfew9wERNQDZcpF
 o5OR6Jxd48i25CxXW8d6XmTjbND7D3ljLIgmgeei4nDIbo9GUoW/5pnzEEH+ANn2Je6uef/N9
 t/jRM3273j9KNlDhYvJeMQ5Z5KL1+YG568SbRFzeZnu3s7rcFhB+63CORI+Jl1weOgVlKwZii
 xwt1gndRjYW4p2ygCdYhFtVKF9IU7m89xVpmQItMrOEiqmVoT/d9W+Ko7KckxDRRXlb5pCxq/
 aMY71kr6zZOQ9tXKKSwgcfc3xbPQgV6iTDPSgnr738DirQe7gG2DKd11ZRLSdakkpBDhU243d
 /md8Dpi+ca9ZgLitTewA2j+KXPRE3EMvWt28QU8UdVKdAowejJY437N2uH7N2DRv9vNbI4xxP
 vmQha8z7fUnryT8EfVCp50UK0NmJw40oDBNSv/PQj3fSC/AYHpBR+eYQZcOkfKuQ3SnKAA0Pz
 bYHxKp+PJ1hzpL5UnnxvBtRKDzS7VRm/Nw+rtfbqjL8oWwep1+bPqfShn7nCbSpwqBV5bDRrx
 A1NY+/T3I7XsHKNToFInTkbeZsqyrPnYHqI8CzBpcV34Nbes3LJhSsGVgkw5Ca3JQIsIuwHP+
 5Z0Fgv8AqLpARPQJuAYrn6qq/l/kpWMpfh5QJL8aF2SFozvexTBY5bbyWMV+m6NPcTRDWl9Xv
 EcuFMjfwh66XRJYRIsFcwh8ESx0JFWBJDUfA8qbBP/WqEvWBdjssp2GswNGV6Bb30ZRnC+h9g
 xX55CvMAwMWCn+O5EkR9kdu122k/hbrXuzJmwcH9tiZDxo+GnPwyWb28oHaivAcHcKDh6Hdgu
 sht+EDo2FSXIy8J5iFHQ3u8OX3ktHgfMejTyvbxYLi9Pw6l8FvOz09oIq4TpQP2Q0KWMx65vK
 8ZPqgH9S5csxWNVV5iPUtTTtm/+azuRU8SW0/vwUSt8uWwYENViz9khKYwTKN51vqYV9fpA6C
 qsxAe6Qq8mKzjCHxXRRvKysGla6gQ1LXYGacTjVRQyaQRkmM94aaZx972v/0BGyI7Lb9yMoZ1
 510NvSgQT0SqPDuEM3SsEi7pAtBAEJ+kQUoYICQ6i4hGCpzwAKGQGWtNhgXswZfVrYSyhYwYY
 4PaIVcho0Fca7kWLyUFEVvaa0HSQKWKuTjeVZG+RJzFahNaGobB7p7XyMNYmzwsWDO7Idk8iu
 S8k4UCswERheoT4QCSpwmYzASbEeyiLt9pSSvXuk0wK9pIL8MrpA0bM++Qro5dcMcfwv2QP8u
 ZEYyuKeDksZM2TaIF2hK2aO0HqeZp+Ybaymb4LyhVyobdLBmyFW3dWFkLKeNi7BLayc3LSBN3
 aMpnaqzO/xaDET3WNvh8QRPK9adoJwYoy8fvoVODFXxzvXkzy9sQinSUS7pbixwAfSuGA=
UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:Tl825nmFDyg=;qAMYUeyjsg/ALnthlCGHWfV6Xw9
 VI918PgUgyaCAvn1iUdFLKI4K40QleScOWgJBTtr0gIKF+pcFXhXovKkp7Ev3OzFGY53x7e+L
 zWDIo1ncOK5hlkehe8r4Jskec66fXkHw180dzGtkxFfApIg36GFLKGi+jwgRB1hUO0TudB0yZ
 BIb7PnXuaMsjPQJoN+o8nRgiI1dAyl8pdzQN6+IqGfBEV3I/cVgKZCvk7TwlGS10yd5isPQnX
 QiV+4IRFuAWQYdmrbVRmIAr9cy0rlBADv2jg4dfSW1Tb4EZQcuPNS+oRmcwVJDbFJBfGIWqLp
 91istB2nZb33o/788+Rb5Ra14EPUj1sHqc6ydGHrPP83kaFlPcfiR80oA3o7uMt3hefBrfWKM
 FPvs7eByAxE1PEUm6WHlmRHUDDqmSwsJh0ZDn+/3i7csAsnN8Z/VkhHkOKIREC7cP5lE8mkWS
 2Euxzx4fMdPV+X+1+QE4cji6WM1gTwBYlmeosqfAotpZ+tukI2Rpl7wzhhY/Rm6M/kk5CZcnH
 /ahdu/UGlEziMLgTmEelfnmwoHN2gvrL0WrSCnRhi6CykegLRPnHCbC0RLqJIVxSVgMtTpiX7
 oAKJb5SD7UySNo+bCXg4nWx6TKt8Nb+8BZW2hLo+9dRdY4GbeaqV8l5YCjJEa6e1MDF0CBV/B
 VecL4PD6QrOCXEnyN29Ug7UtUbli7hSimppaHX5+vceLgYtmayGBjJo7b9RPcuorUVnfw55UK
 Bcu5PohYvlz
Status: R

On 28/07/2023 16:18, David Carlisle wrote:
> On 28/07/2023 16:14, LARONDE Thierry wrote:
>> On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 03:58:49PM +0100, Joseph Wright wrote:
>>> On 28/07/2023 15:28,  Thierry wrote:
>>>> Yes. But the same engine does things differently between LaTeX
>>>> 2022-11-01 and LaTeX 2023-06-01.
>>>>
>>>> So could someone give me the diff of the input related things in
>>>> LaTeX between these two versions so that I can have a clue about
>>>> what LaTeX is expecting and what it is eventually calling (because it
>>>> could be calling, low level, the open routine, and there is no
>>>> acrobatics made in the open routine in kerTeX: the handling is made
>>>> before calling the routine; so if LaTeX is calling low level like
>>>> this, the result is not a surprise).
>>> Older LaTeX used \openin + \ifeof to test for file existence; we now use
>>> \(pdf)filesize, which is expandable and reports "0" for a 
>>> non-existent file.
>>> Both methods should find "foo.tex" from "foo" in the same way.
>>>
>> Uh! You expect \filesize to do searching and file extension? Why?
>> \filesize can be called with whatever file, not necessarily a .tex.
>> Why would it assume it has to try an extension if it is not found?
>>
>> Where was this specified for the primitive?
> 
> The primitive has always acted that way (since being added by pdftex)
> it's not a latex feature.
> 
> If \input{xxx} inputs a file, \(pdf)filesize{xxx} should refer to the
> same file, so the primitive has always used the same file searching.

Indeed, we (team) picked up the trick of using \(pdf)filesize from Heiko 
Oberdiek's code, where it has been used for I think 15+ years in some 
extensions to the graphics mechanisms for file searching.

Joseph