Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) by h2774747.stratoserver.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Debian-3) with ESMTP id x0E6FlvY013410 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 07:15:48 +0100 Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de ([129.206.100.212]) by mx-ha.gmx.net (mxgmx115 [212.227.17.5]) with ESMTPS (Nemesis) id 1N6tmx-1hKEiX0dI7-018FY9 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 07:15:42 +0100 Received: from listserv.uni-heidelberg.de ([129.206.100.94]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de with ESMTP; 14 Jan 2019 07:15:42 +0100 Received: from listserv (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3605126ED6; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 07:15:34 +0100 (CET) Received: by LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 16.0) with spool id 32475154 for LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 07:15:34 +0100 Delivered-To: LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Received: from listserv (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C194126BA6 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 07:15:34 +0100 (CET) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-ID: <5630732433921446.WA.kellysmith12.21gmail.com@listserv.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 07:15:34 +0100 Reply-To: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project Sender: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project From: Kelly Smith Subject: Re: Text Commands in XeLaTeX and LuaLaTeX To: LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: Envelope-To: X-GMX-Antispam: 0 (Mail was not recognized as spam); Detail=V3; X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:4R+N5GovYcQ=:RdRge46d3OvSWjcmzNQF99/lVS tDcmABAWyimca+v7bOcPbZlghqmHX2SyCsZ3itV/gzTa21DGHTkH9fB+2XZancwvk2bOotscq I5/18SDUBLPomynwCe/Afgygsb0cI/R8nR+fT6lpdnPYg39h8vKUJnMRW8qxYkd91Pymm8wBX 1T/JS1v6KjA9AUl9FgYbj8hvDgG9T5OeEIteiz8MPjE9mY/vuIJ8ixLv7XIE1CPVSpqlMq7AK 0odjkOUBtc/HvAIBYEfLMVuA/ddsQSbXMP6zP9JFX0P5SlSiHKaPxdwPgmbqB0cTUy+4ZAgBJ vwUT8V1AiuyAl2WVRNCBVYCW8myWSl60C8k254crFST2PnBiScp1lsC4Ni1/rqOAEyoEyeV/c TMyNlPPGSDqCgq26Wh1EtdVZmY1IVEVfcJWeXqh0oy1fzO/HmsswjO2rdu7ciGynWIfb83qEC 6AEHzyKhviPNk0kSXn7cZ8P+oitMFeTrt02j3bjUGTqectdbCzLof5CyvZ/Si+C30fzult4US y/oTY+B5lJFwAvvcILN2Rq5UzMxpgaPuVnirM1DPdfhAvA90eIukXdAbr1Ow93Fwso0r9e1vJ 0+mjWshTEIbiph2Kz3Km5eTsWtXeAI8P1EQgiQNIhKHovdykHQfzBWUBkfwIKkq+rcuiK3eq7 ZKkbyzNkYWtuw1KYPidBEhI7HeTEp6u4pvMfg4leW0jQ1m05yy7NGSq0IstoGjDJ6vGCpVASq RLutCfZxHQ1Gnnk5u8T9dZQeVyvlHKbCGOPL/2wPnHUs5iC//U7zNlymFP6z3l0dVEVbwAXt6 s14kw7XC1N/YYdLk2X1rwXTvN9TbXp4PZl7S3DyX8N6wuvOoYd/pN7Ns0agK9PH5JkZCG9aju iOBgaoFQhvhsV3UYI9bF9+Zdp1NphnD2f47MxuCjR82yAL6Fq2WVr7VdmmIUjF2POxPzvixtT IoAsfzBrsvjEJ5Xgq8w6ejpADWQ0GsHCdKv7w1sMEtFOZgZDMuL29Lmlj2q7+861YMkdd9jZq Cr8oOwnsNjHhOUudHRPPqFdOktAVpb+3/SeKwsTJKbc7AQcKkKwGUW0+ly2kB235R81THZxPo xBb1PKRz+qYzHt90z3ponx1culjBwTo7NSZlCwz0G8uH4z1c337W0jR0Z8U4ohLm4Rv+0MXBR X8VgV4w+n0fbhI4XaWOGDHLTG4XdfbFJIAX8sWv21eds1L4DR79lIiDKsQtRGYRVPomuF/70p yFelsPPpsqSYOjBi3Ybn8Xm8uWOjMqGQ1jFTR0N35AplKWpjpMFtmdliBdAgjjlrdPKtQS6A6 EVwODDJisfubpw+r07t6R9LqpPHw2hOhkfiRqHkBCkuAOPWwaKGDAiZ6N5wI+eAtYaULetCHJ 1VJfetHsY1B5LTOBsJlTGsOhHifT02v90OAdoT/Vl20wfvr5l3JaiRJ58wz5J9pcCt9TZMtEm qAciO6woPbA6Y8Ta4cVDf7jK7rtbK+HrZEuw2rlgLIctlijDjxtlNLUq//6XUEjazRX8JifYJ RgMQjlr5jknS8M2+LZeU6z7/ZwSaLpthnUH5Y4hqL8IQuL+gnNodGZ7C9WXeFCSXvvOoBSpo5 SnrbNM5WdprF0PlsSyX82c+a/N2kKPgJTZg4RolS749wQv3k6Fy2ynsX73PJaMwINgdEVFp/q gqiFPDfC56AVvTI7XW5ZvF/pX4slQ1/HnJPYb4F9V7xi0I53+jP2GRxSiGQoSQTnskBJUjgk0 bO9bstJrw7Z20GN8WBhuTHYhNoOlIWPO8xW2AvHthYghFBGXGE7hlsKzyauzAwRWDVYEsOM5u /Oh3HFQLySIJ87F0xPiYQ/kFuweswKPl8bsmIDNJ8yuWG10phqGTwUeT8zgJd1MVXzRjzjVf3 lmpPU3KROtfsbPX6WbAwTnNUIJKvW6PXvQzSSQfkGd/wPqeMupaTN1sDKx5njbEjdA1IeT5o3 rNhPWPZ7f83O+VNobFUFi380J4x0vbOlHc4HAXXcV6XrrOGqIYqKOURvqlM03BDMMMWzP02lg == X-UI-Loop:V01:fqSyAJ/YNXo=:IbpJYxroDTHfJBaiHYY1KbgMlcCiEVWMJtpeyi+jYI0= X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:ERH2X281BuY=:9q/i1yMTzUNdGYY8eHxWD8 WOD4MPakCcT1WyPVo4OCFIny4z7dpzjQAUeGOePUYyOxaqYk93tUxg1SOLjpEGqVZuS9AhwJN 4o5wzt4FdNgj7F3cGMLGkDwGGHk67ZPbCttrjpgTHhFBWxO9/xVn+GaUqpK9GC04RSlPqCwCq FEYGcynr6+sKVRKlGfqJdZcBASsQNjpURPzU2iJA0oeZmzsdvYz4IRjSKAIB3By29mkHaUXp5 JcLewTI1bDAFITcRcFXMGHjeFw+y7V9rDQf0sR+BoN2l+8DzZrZbNXM+Isnm1w/zW27LnKWpJ dqFAtW0XshytMoam6bXjoxxQLXTphXRJZpE4kTg/C5Wrl9kqTGOObwukozcs+j0xyJHuUbKPB Fbjmr1/f5onVnSJql2x52cbH9M6Pvbbqb9OsP9qJnN8lwghi+zTiWudEy5r4A X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.78 on 81.169.212.23 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by h2774747.stratoserver.net id x0E6FlvY013410 Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 8159 2019-01-10T22:22:53+01:00, Frank Mittelbach: >> There will need to be a way to >> handle this gracefully—and more robustly than, say, just asking users >> to prefer text commands. > > nobody does this or should do this (or did really even in the past). The > whole idea of inputenc was to enable the user to use sophisticated input > methods when available, eg type ä or ® or > > the whole system works by converting whatever input method to a > "standard LICR", eg > > ä -> \"{a} > ® -> \textregistered > ... > > all behind the scene. From that point on it could be safely used within > LaTeX like sending it to the aux file or typetting it as a single glyph > when in T1 encoding or as \accent ... a when in OT1 or as ... I’m sorry, again I mistakenly assumed there was a problem, when in fact, there was no problem at all! > anyway, for history but I think still somewhat illuminating the whole > area I recommend my 1995 talk about encodings: > > https://www.latex-project.org/publications/indexbytopic/2e-concepts/ Thank-you, this clarifies the situation. > of course this is way before the event of unicode or xetex/luatex ... As for XeTeX and LuaTeX, it appears that UTF-8 text doesn’t get converted to an internal representation, according to some quick experiments I tried. I guess that it would be impractical to set up automatic conversions for such a large character set. And, as you said, since the UTF-8 will survive reading and writing to and from files, an internal representation isn’t critical. When running on XeTeX or LuaTeX, is there an interface for getting the Unicode character(s) represented by a text command? (e.g. \"{a} -> ä, useful for string comparison). I suppose one could easily achieve that by locally redefining all the text commands? Warmly, Kelly