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Tue, 8 Jan 2019 01:56:06 +0000 Received: from ppp-202-176-184-58.revip.asianet.co.th (EHLO [192.168.1.37]) ([202.176.184.58]) by smtp427.mail.sg3.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 7f968cd5422522d85d68630d154a55d7 for ; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 01:56:04 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-B6B25CC9-C193-44C2-A17C-7B4697175519 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) References: <146078af-dd19-0a1f-6686-11803c62649f@morningstar2.co.uk> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (16A404) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 08:56:00 +0700 Reply-To: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project Sender: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project From: Chris A Rowley <0000028265f2b176-dmarc-request@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE> Subject: Re: Coffins and l3draw To: LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE In-Reply-To: Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: Envelope-To: X-GMX-Antispam: 0 (Mail was not recognized as spam); Detail=V3; X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:WztZIhX3hUs=:iwYr3IrVFlXia6IAV6+n9cL7Xy 3d5oZpRcomCFO4oTatKFFgf2+bP4UISgBDQyu9NDPY8CF8vxk2takww3mbMrUTVUEpHuDuP5b B8fEe9aK0eS/PIWMEzsCCucyHA/krpUP+m3H5EYfkfGEcBtu40ZivFL4kVUSqlfEIF8hwQA8O BfueUto1lxKTjchDkNv4PgHV9r2I8kQluAnrXDgbZ8f/y4KcPBZ8K+VPXspk7X6VwDehvENlG Wy8io5ny7ncNiV43f4FWyG/C45iG1fRdzZWw54rFHAAfH1txufIHS50396sw97XYMmtSWhslm omEUxriRL5NhIp7D50FMezh29j+eoMAx/uM+wPXPjbyKz+yuHRC7wHIkd13qkGx8eoIyseZHl XI44TGfIzUlr9BDBgbIGLFC634h6mf2CWPIt6lvPdP9MiA9daZGBXdPWIDvQIBsoKfjjvYEed rH1y6UjjJd8vP8s8p7TeCai3BVM5AnvDHMFJrI4w/14JTKiiHZZ9+StvmzC1ZVkEjeevvBH5v zklV7Z3ZOFZNhVN8f2nRZHegSoFBBDhcheISm/hdfGn89SWu2svi9MOzw+H9xKt3dMix2pJAE TrUroCpRDJp/idlB88foiz4yliAP/NZjfE5GiRWJF2VfBn1zErifQ54BrMfCfKe/dDCP+K/q2 kwRU0oxEz9a6kdEtM3yOBiaxShdrv+Hn2qeyrqjIwKiN3WIUsUbFe770t6k0aqJ1PkcQwBD/J dhEFYUczrpVlFRc6A1PBiEfbq+PRrFkDAagQUCbgXWlvuQ7I7yp6MGG+geN9043n9O/35Ca5p AORRHhTxfCk/0abd0HfGyxN0Qo5qNeX4QYv96PqyWzqSCPKsWArKnY4BG8IDzrkEgSqbR/kY8 3S6BdIkFcL2RTbipkCHNkB6wkhpsrmNFCs3f1dS48Ci+czUEY1Cie5/RlN/0RmkYSYTlrCs3v F7/zMoSYW5w4iw/cLPF03goTVqls3wAwLTGPNWaTGG37so+pCxtMni0XnCUj1opjfdNuEjiV1 7GPZ6PbirRKp6d1HWkNBeiPIs/sQU6GMU6Vo5EfMoJ9xTDke5D/o1HxGo4Gy4G/yaBJicqoK/ fIPdpiIKprotpdIjFI8K3OUXSrko+bDaIkoGFgz5GlbQSc15zdgrIav5dFr2Qvw+yPFGI5Awc ncSonLnYPHzXBuztbroIShA2LTmCk+DCFNBEY55JvAaInGP/smhVVBKhunsE/XNnU9oyejrVX V1Tdk4SHNXs1A9teNZCw/b9VKnayEZ97mqbblpKGJ7Dguo5260wWV9DNzKPnhEVyNFqRBlmQE bbordiFko2lflo0+TAAKzHOF4aqljcLwURQoSQKulZ6yD9eW/gETobkYeNkD43U2UyGfWdfTC L0bnu65/oxa+Afkc28fjnpEzZJGljUbTQqiZBCykb2fItKuEUePFMZXgZ7e3lgcqqRF/J3f7w hb0sbyJEMOXRqoOnOtQHFxVpfHTBgco+tDcmswLQmOSj4/69yRMh3QClbOEmRrRjUhhVwRMjC HIHZJfM1fOTWeqxA2wsDBt1DGEzXfXIpA+yoYrPz+Hc5S+GTTz5gsQcePuumCcbRCHyGmUENc /jAgCZqOgucqCj+jE3cBdtaEkdlnjC9fszizGb2m+RwSE7q25yMF4kiC5NaI3vKTGvRPQvLOZ RWNsmnzpfBvuZxo4BG7s3kwyGakUDXomqIbsbPWG4t9oSp3afm6D+uac45wKeUXolZrOTw1st TdtzEoFlvZquOf7KMOTYuuiNsY3mRfUl/0hdokvCRrK47W2v41keR5WkgMaNxxV+achXFI5i3 X7lKHJPB9KO0YpJFWb/MMGvpo9frYeZt9cs2++FSHPdStoxVcsgf4ByGUOjo558wn816FarzX qHdLAv7MVd6f/yq6Oz7lzdwXUDKV0R4lS7e5nKVmFlJXQK62Wq09ir5Yd7+d4uzB+IP9b3zfh OiqNMGAJWinHHznZixwUB2DsYgn5d2mHreIeJVSOaw380EGJ/X0+R5mY4qsiycdzj93rl71Lg == X-UI-Loop: V01:NTC1TCSDrk0=:OFReRlfFFSMoJbwVNXZ9DLYrLJyTJjEDE/ZntVdYQcU= X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:TOdKgwgW/T4=:EDNsuR5wry87RiCeh2D1Yr s7OImBMo6Sz1VOjymovUZwgNPiSKkeuYC7sxHoT2eyp8KkF5eax8epYTME5SlUhou7bL0DsCC ufObRToSu35dUvM1seV68JwbYdcSTMk9JXKnSgDiueX/5F8UTmpgZAX2AAPCQkS2/rhiBCPiT mxLDLRycJS4yormZdsMYPT3FOokUnUu2ndvo/pZewvGlHtx6y+uUYek6F4LpesvjSnACCRRzr NVN6RYhPtfUnMNYoGxXSFsi26/m+osEEPrfZeEAJL4ARUm+oGo2roaHf9Ei+TFaGnakrg2lvH 855R/5O9qxQ7Zh8wGlhW/K0kWB4s0v/mW9DKpv+ZfSZQx/I1zIEVW10TmqhZF2L8WCMdx4toa TGVjnl1wxsaX/yLnduAvgtAc+DNlsYEJrrdnElTbNa467lg1bz29LCxu4s2xn --Apple-Mail-B6B25CC9-C193-44C2-A17C-7B4697175519 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Joel The history of the relationship between coffins and page-makeup is relevant= here. Briefly, the ideas behind the current implementation of coffins was origina= lly related purely to typesetting, in particular to the complex alignments = that are needed in maths typesetting of, for example, three matrices that h= ave to align row 3 of one with the middle of the next and the last row of t= he final one.=20 The next development stage was somewhat different, aimed at page-makeup of = title pages etc without using absolute coordinates or any =E2=80=9Cdraw-lik= e techniques=E2=80=9D. I shall leave out my comments on whether it is sensible to implement the co= nstruction of such pages without using draw-like technology. But LaTeX definitely needs a =E2=80=9Cpage-construction mode=E2=80=9D that = (amongst other useful stuff) can be used to construct such single (and sing= ular) pages. This will combine something based on the draw technology with= other layout technology including (I hope) an extension of the coffin tech= nology. This extension will, for example, support integration with draw technology = and also support more complex alignments of nested coffins, as needed by th= e maths examples above. But as you remark, come the day!=20=20 So now is the time to provide good specs for the =E2=80=9CNew Coffins from = Old=E2=80=9D project :#) Best wishes, Chris > On 8 Jan 2019, at 04:40, Joel C. Salomon wrote: >=20 >> On Mon, Jan 7, 2019, 3:23 AM Joseph Wright > I'm mindful of the link, but at present can't say what exactly the=20 >> result will be :) >>=20 >> I suspect this will need to be explored once a more fully worked-out=20 >> l3draw is finished. Possibly coffins will be used instead of nodes ...=20 >> not sure. >=20 >=20 > For l3draw, it does make a kind of sense to hand-off typesetting actual t= ext to the coffins module. >=20 > For absolute positioning, I wonder whether it might be reasonable to have= implicit coffins (with nothing inside them, but with poles other coffins c= an be attached to) for the page and/or text-block. >=20 > Then again, creating these might be functions of the eventual L3 successo= r to the geometry package. (Headers and footers and margin notes are all go= ing to be in coffins, come the day=E2=80=94right?) >=20 > =E2=80=94Joel --Apple-Mail-B6B25CC9-C193-44C2-A17C-7B4697175519 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Joel

The history of= the relationship between coffins and page-makeup is relevant here.

Briefly, the ideas behind the cur= rent implementation of coffins was originally related purely to typesetting= , in particular to the complex alignments that are needed in maths typesett= ing of, for example, three matrices that have to align row 3 of one with th= e middle of the next and the last row of the final one. 

The next development stage was somewhat= different, aimed at page-makeup of title pages etc without using absolute = coordinates or any =E2=80=9Cdraw-like techniques=E2=80=9D.

I shall leave out my comments on whether i= t is sensible to implement the construction of such pages without using dra= w-like technology.

But LaT= eX definitely needs a =E2=80=9Cpage-construction mode=E2=80=9D that (amongs= t other useful stuff) can be used to construct such single (and singular) p= ages.  This will combine something based on the draw technology with o= ther layout technology including (I hope) an extension of the coffin techno= logy.

This extension will,= for example, support integration with draw technology and also support mor= e complex alignments of nested coffins, as needed by the maths examples abo= ve.  But as you remark, come the day!  
So now is the time to provide good specs for the = =E2=80=9CNew Coffins from Old=E2=80=9D project :#)
Best wishes,
Chris

On 8 Jan 2019, at 04:40, Joel C. Salomon <joelcsalomon@GMAIL.COM> wrote:

<= /div>
On Mon, Jan 7, 2019, 3:23 AM Joseph= Wright <joseph.wright@morningstar2.co.uk wrote:
I'm mindful of the link, but at present = can't say what exactly the
result will be :)

I suspect this will need to be explored once a more fully worked-out
l3draw is finished. Possibly coffins will be used instead of nodes ...
not sure.

For l3draw, it does make a kind of sense to hand-off typesetting actua= l text to the coffins module.

For absolute positioning, I wonder whether it might be reasonable to = have implicit coffins (with nothing inside them, but with poles other coffi= ns can be attached to) for the page and/or text-block.

Then again, creating these might be function= s of the eventual L3 successor to the geometry package. (Headers and footer= s and margin notes are all going to be in coffins, come the day=E2=80=94rig= ht?)

=E2=80=94Joel
=
= --Apple-Mail-B6B25CC9-C193-44C2-A17C-7B4697175519-- ------------=_1546912588-29664-76 Content-Type: text/plain; name="SpamAssassinReport.txt" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="SpamAssassinReport.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Spam detection software, running on the system "h2774747.stratoserver.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Hello Joel The history of the relationship between coffins and page-makeup is relevant here. Briefly, the ideas behind the current implementation of coffins was originally related purely to typesetting, in particular to the complex alignments that are needed in maths typesetting of, for examp [...] Content analysis details: (6.1 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 2.8 FROM_STARTS_WITH_NUMS From: starts with several numbers 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (francesco.zigliotto[at]gmail.com) (rainer.schoepf[at]web.de) (rainer.schoepf[at]web.de) (rainer.schoepf[at]web.de) (rainer.schoepf[at]web.de) (n.korpel[at]gmail.com) (rainer.schoepf[at]web.de) (rainer.schoepf[at]web.de) (rainer.schoepf[at]web.de) (mguth[at]gmx.de) (joelcsalomon[at]gmail.com) (joelcsalomon[at]gmail.com) (rainer.schoepf[at]gmx.net) (petstep[at]web.de) (rainer.schoepf[at]gmx.net) (rainer.schoepf[at]web.de) (jfbu[at]free.fr) (n.korpel[at]gmail.com) (rainer.schoepf[at]web.de) (rainer.schoepf[at]gmx.net) (rainer.schoepf[at]gmx.net) (rainer.schoepf[at]gmx.net) (rainer.schoepf[at]gmx.net) (rainer.schoepf[at]gmx.net) (joelcsalomon[at]gmail.com) (cath.rene7046[at]gmail.com) (jbox.orangejason[at]outlook.com) (rainer.schoepf[at]gmx.net) 3.1 NO_RDNS_DOTCOM_HELO Host HELO'd as a big ISP, but had no rDNS 0.0 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 MIME_QP_LONG_LINE RAW: Quoted-printable line longer than 76 chars 0.1 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different ------------=_1546912588-29664-76--