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Thu, 8 Jan 2015 12:12:04 +0100 Received: from smtp3.easily.co.uk (smtp3.easily.co.uk [91.194.151.18]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id t08BBkD4012798 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2015 12:11:50 +0100 Received: from [139.222.112.180] (port=54080 helo=[139.222.112.180]) by smtp3.easily.co.uk with esmtpa (Exim 4.43) id 1Y9B0E-0008BC-Dm for LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Thu, 08 Jan 2015 11:11:46 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <180s5on6su3rq.dlg@nililand.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Message-ID: <54AE65F2.4030804@morningstar2.co.uk> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 11:11:46 +0000 Reply-To: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project Sender: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project From: Joseph Wright Subject: Re: fix-cm and optical sizes To: LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE In-Reply-To: <180s5on6su3rq.dlg@nililand.de> Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de id t08BC58d024361 Envelope-To: X-GMX-Antispam: 0 (Mail was not recognized as spam); Detail=V3; X-GMX-Antivirus: 0 (no virus found) X-UI-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:4KQ9UCvH1CE=:YE6Lnffz3D/mvEESEC/MFCobv6 MH10M5I2VQUKac3rz4F/mv07nnvhfNpYJM5DEhN28Q2P9IzSJZjUMjbcqYZyALtT/HFOy0vL3 sfQwtJtSHqYaaYfuw+ZByMPgb7jlejqvfIJF9ptOB1m2gRElbitE9AaAggCsAWSY2YAe8RsA0 ZyxYwYNJ1pE4eaxBIYRTPm0bOQb3zEHhL/HPWomBE8frzX9SdKU75tS6n2TTmYPFwo3cBJ4Hv mezyhpeLO52eKNSCLZBrhhWdLL1KuN3/tM3EM1nepcIWyYIvSsUCx8Ku5fMAPNTELNAU6OXTI WR5DYob7GusqIrINZB8XwBUy3gF4uwwZM19rfN+zhk4twDc1BWPNw/t5X+O/b3uEvATfhFwGL tB90+d3b0AwbTVoLLIn2E1hfcAL6XEOcWGhmaM7Cii9VoFQSH0wb3hWfTqvG++yyhNekBuDP3 AJNrfzr0Ld0df6qnzPveaAsS9rSVoQJ07quCSaJMSF9uY6wQYvKTNYM6iokrqwmCB0J7WEiF2 RQnNCF71ePZTjknA/H9/RWyrFrY90EF9msBV2DjtkgaR6VrwdDijzQzDSQpNKDkoc6WpL74D/ lOlBSrVUdY4wlqj5mBT4M9CQbxG6Lad8ll49VJoRAqeqz193cIw+sfOLX29/q542vWBg0uT+b cyFPL64P9D4jLfgCh6dURwNME6t+2Ugs13ZempA5dR3h7PVHQ6YDxLZ1Pvl+Dsc6FbNlsH9v5 c02vsQVk4fM4yhD4QcDiKbGAJjTN44PQZqhD6tYzgE9oBJOv0IxV7xyMKCh0dXYRn0LB2JhGY haBbHFropCQQmrNeSJXWD7g8+wD41UmEW37CHq0tnZCz2xEXMZC6jq3aMICz933m7g4xVJtJl dU9tNVBsVvKpFMvRqcfNoWHM9PzeNqxmFkNTozZkAwBuw219cVqvHgDUISwOoD0kM3DPwOi2A V5Ea9lwttMUaNEYobOkNTETOjPaMe0w5Yn/iYEUuavJZhQQTlIoXXlpzRGPeXMGz2m2bGLl5h eGuyf51gBYRVazsI+6dMIWzKs+8AmM6K7u7lbGRF1twsb9C7mOpRBIe6NiGk3Gq3c3x8M6Wvk D0XWNeME3UaVhCS1AexKL0WUpzTAcxiDigqhjeae6M9vd22yf1ZJ3KdaG6u5Mh8TySwVoY6y0 /kZqbVgX9CILtP0+LO0uC6ayBou0DdOxFfWyYblzaAktSh3ekNWfxdCR9IS/cxjJYf1jOmObG V8d5K9gcnJ4Z67qG7gtyEsXh5m0Qika3vrbTFlbHXQ4wasNSUleN9egToGRdYmVye0Hmly9Af /47ymhkugRda9zf5/CO37C6Qwd+lZK0qxoyJ7lO8qE/KdxbXd5XVXyHUjeZmLbEHuWv2u/iZz bN/cDOyk/qVvRiFijziDxDD6gvUjK94Q1Z3OhpciQyiCv1dl1Tdu6rKtR8pJ/M+lKGpYVjnct RvXjGvykLuzX+9hPhCP1qX659BQt0WJeaVTLiyI8KmGXtEMoHdW6wjFR5o/OaFpHlZN6/CiQ= = X-UI-Loop:V01:lnJ06GOwMoQ=:q4YUmqQX3+Q6rNP0bxbN3cS72ZbtpHXESAVlFI2q3nc= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1; X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.71 on 85.214.41.38 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by h1439878.stratoserver.net id t08BE7Zq031677 Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 7635 On 08/01/2015 09:58, Ulrike Fischer wrote: > When loading fix-cm less optical sizes are used and so huge size are > much bolder than without it: > > \documentclass{article} > \usepackage[T1]{fontenc} > \pagestyle{empty} > \begin{document} > \Huge\bfseries > % without fix-cm > % ecbx2488 > % sfbx2488.pfb > > % with fix-cm > % ecbx1200 at 24.88pt > % sfbx1200.pfb > %\fontname\font > > \sffamily > % without fix-cm > % ecsx2488 > % sfsx2488.pfb > > % with fix-cm > % ecsx1000 at 24.88pt > % sfsx1000.pfb > \fontname\font > \end{document} > > The documentation says > > "Only those design sizes of the fonts will be used, that are > normally available in Type1 format, too. You need not load the > extra package cmmib57 for this purpose." > > I do find the reference to an old (and now obsolete) package like > cmmib57 (http://mirrors.ctan.org/fonts/amsfonts/doc/cmmib57.pdf) > quite dubious. And with the cm-super fonts there are certainly more > design sizes available than used by the sty. > > I do understand that is could be problematic to change fix-cm as it > could change existing definitions. But couldn't one create a > new-fix-cm.sty with better font definitions? Isn't the point of fix-cm to address the difference between OT1 and T1? The docs say > The appearance of the T1 and TS1 encoded CM fonts (aka ‘EC’) is made > as similar as possible to the traditional (OT1 encoded) ones. although it does also say > In contrast to what you may expect, fix-cm does not ensure that line > and page breaks stay the same ... If I run your demo without loading any packages at all I get cmbx12 at 24.88pt cmbx12.pfb cmbss10 at 24.88pt cmssbx10.pfb which is as close as the EC fonts can get to the original CM ones, I think. Certainly there is a lot more visual difference between OT1 and T1 when fix-cm is not loaded than when it is. -- Joseph Wright