Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) by h1439878.stratoserver.net (8.14.2/8.14.2/Debian-2build1) with ESMTP id s7LLk227023061 for ; Thu, 21 Aug 2014 23:46:03 +0200 Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de ([129.206.100.212]) by mx-ha.gmx.net (mxgmx101) with ESMTPS (Nemesis) id 0ML6Kr-1XKrIL2oPx-000OSm for ; Thu, 21 Aug 2014 23:45:56 +0200 Received: from listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.94]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id s7LLh6lY029429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 21 Aug 2014 23:43:06 +0200 Received: from listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [127.0.0.1]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s7LE8res024909; Thu, 21 Aug 2014 23:43:05 +0200 Received: by LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 16.0) with spool id 11297113 for LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Thu, 21 Aug 2014 23:43:05 +0200 Received: from relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (relay2.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.210.211]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s7LLh5CE015254 for ; Thu, 21 Aug 2014 23:43:05 +0200 Received: from smtp3.easily.co.uk (smtp3.easily.co.uk [91.194.151.18]) by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s7LLgvVL010622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 21 Aug 2014 23:43:00 +0200 Received: from [81.147.109.232] (port=49325 helo=palladium.home) by smtp3.easily.co.uk with esmtpa (Exim 4.43) id 1XKa8H-0005VL-E3 for LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Thu, 21 Aug 2014 22:42:57 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <53F667E1.8080909@morningstar2.co.uk> Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 22:42:57 +0100 Reply-To: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project Sender: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project From: Joseph Wright Subject: Re: Thoughts on xtemplate To: LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE In-Reply-To: Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: Envelope-To: X-GMX-Antispam: 0 (Mail was not recognized as spam); Detail=V3; X-GMX-Antivirus: 0 (no virus found) X-UI-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:hnIaSCYX4xw=:7Cm42X9kJhF5Y/2qffPDw/Gb32 4GRdeIhE47Fw88zQp5skR/jzzVE2fhcXM2uo2JIYXWxwwvU9yvMfR0uEyqNg7iwc1GL+TVFbJ zENNdKYJl16t9JLtAT6L22kEKvF9O5xk0sI7UQ4HbEH3GlsCq5rMa67CfEKiYaTsAcrzcssxT 1uNJCaKc1fMISCKohSUS7+5yUkm5KIt2Dp9ira4faZHqRy7bFp7iWBsioNegUtXdNojtkS4h7 SU8nSPxqTjzoyxLyLfXm8+eJrxiY4KSoLBJTJC8QBZnNDC7KCsmNGYxmhN+mm4CkamWMZ959N aEQ4uhxCLlBlFUmjAPY3vUlllHL1u+/9+E8SPnEuErMHehfRk9ESqXqKNgiLgXZx10sMCoGjq ttFHJKg+8p4buY1ZMAgfdk+SDpgmA3OlBqmgvu+tGCPJbUfGZkWfYBfrGRdGNp1oEhwIm6hjD lrQWn/HRWRfVhZdTYBO8RNnHkyt5u/J1fNMuITSPVGxzlfcsfjw6VFVvohzdUeSvedMZR8zeo hoKHgtFUxSIVFpTFnCFMo+46ROUOdC1mvqSi3R8SrsbSgrrCe4y+HfARy+T9FYnmilrVKHeid eDZDwCL278XMYfbkqoJ5x39kLzcsAJvrINe2GRmTNV72EUjy82BqXQ4J88uqcwPJJO2EXzpgP 8Ih+fMxv8mOzix08ZIephHXnzFVEKwgx9gxSjlzoQjG6BbSuMEf3D/JU0cllKii1Oquz7qkLs kKCztECZSNF5lOUi9y3D+Os3VyQFZqeQDBr5fR3R0gfrjx5B7FHRCaRRO69b5iKyCY8+kHkqm /1J8cYchyT5q+LLAx4XltgbgMuh8/P72eHoGa0O/0jFtRdn/BBrFNV7FWpZ4bogECVNISCFl/ 44nIExhwVi8VkFW1bSRTpPKMB4ANHAKRq0NJP/9MTr8pH3cC6pI8kAun2v6M1U8O7aGkm3n3w IgQMEpK3ud4jlvUzVYa3EBV1ttfC1YBmQAcdHAvnS+Z6tZgnrYmh5w+dUj9YS1wmWrgqNPdmh fLoHOiTQ82TV/YmctklyEOTIrMiUUiLCvPVrpBinbQB/4Tlfs3zv8wKtwvLEtIdz0Y8VotEnv RN4/QabMkMB5H+usLXnuYWklU92w3fsAuAmbp44Ol+o+bzUpCEZJ4sw/3gbuwMIcAYXS5b1Bl 113xde8qjM/ZTbHQaf1a7qerWv4R3FS6J4zAL4OA004E1aLZ1GiWXyTmAggWuNlWq2PLA2pcH kNcKmK1vIARMeI8JPd8jIz5yBjSdl6S1Kr2fEE6tL2EQrA3Wnd/o8qzxxeIlp80Paeh/5aUAr 34/6TVjO7bczgl3+39XqbV+eBF5b2LNbd3mjaymeqylmjvDoWceaBM/NfxWEOVm1vINwBuRnt txvKheW+Inj+lqYt63XdhaUA9iSNiPbZBGAgvUPaikqhSZsBCImLq46suGm5c71wsf5jJtxwU sfcyIRAsAi96klS64Zm5qlhUj0RVLq+kqxmnhKOpjVc7h4zl07rNWMPxbgy3OHxpCr3caCGh0 uGZlPPXBgztKt5b6vHAQ= X-UI-Loop:V01:Yv2yT/foSBQ=:1s4vc7VasmmuT9an6oXq4NLAtSELQK0tfZzqhPPTBWo= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1; Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 7571 On 20/08/2014 01:23, Allred, Sean wrote: > I've drawn up a syntax proposal > (as > an Org file) on GitHub: One thing I think to consider is the lesson of LaTeX(2e) in that a small number of positional-based mandatory arguments work well as a user. That's something I'd certainly expect to see in any new code too. The issue with mixing up mandatory and optional arguments in an object/template set up is that this then looks less clear (how many arguments must a TeX-like document-level interface require?). Almost certainly the number of truly *required* arguments will remain small, and while the case that a design should not be limited by TeX is quite true, and the same time a design interface that fundamentally fails to translate to a TeX-based user layer is a problem too. -- Joseph Wright