Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) by h1439878.stratoserver.net (8.14.2/8.14.2/Debian-2build1) with ESMTP id s59Dkukk017617 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 15:46:57 +0200 Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de ([129.206.100.212]) by mx-ha.gmx.net (mxgmx010) with ESMTPS (Nemesis) id 0M4jcr-1WYjZO00OD-00z2VF for ; Mon, 09 Jun 2014 15:46:51 +0200 Received: from listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.94]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id s59DiB1a002190 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 9 Jun 2014 15:44:12 +0200 Received: from listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [127.0.0.1]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s58M137I007279; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 15:44:11 +0200 Received: by LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 16.0) with spool id 11063664 for LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 15:44:11 +0200 Received: from relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (relay2.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.210.211]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s59DiB0Q029742 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 15:44:11 +0200 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [208.118.235.10]) by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s59Di1r4028714 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 15:44:04 +0200 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36089 helo=lola) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Wtzrk-0003jg-0R; Mon, 09 Jun 2014 09:44:00 -0400 Received: by lola (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 87285E075E; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 15:43:46 +0200 (CEST) References: <539432A6.7030205@clear.net.nz> <5395A7A3.7040106@residenset.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de id s59DiB0Q029743 Message-ID: <874mzu19m5.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 15:43:46 +0200 Reply-To: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project Sender: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project From: David Kastrup Subject: Re: Juxtaposition in l3fp To: LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE In-Reply-To: <5395A7A3.7040106@residenset.net> ("Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hells?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?tr=F6m=22's?= message of "Mon, 9 Jun 2014 14:25:07 +0200") Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by relay.uni-heidelberg.de id s59DiB1a002190 Envelope-To: X-GMX-Antispam: 0 (Mail was not recognized as spam); Detail=V3; X-GMX-Antivirus: 0 (no virus found) X-UI-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:w0Kx+oaMnLs=:slBKtcSlW5LbOzvmseZjm1RNTk 5V/IFRSQ4ENyFsdlVyzTrozNaG7mXKdj9NYOO7NphETRWDyTcIP61kV0Vte5aV+lR9A0/QFMO I5Stba3mk29Z58R9CGWNVj/NAC+kYt8XDyP2E0XZf8rUwc4drysV59ulOzU7R/SzwCwcsZltP X6qR1uIY8EAa4m/tgFPkTIgPcIwmbMb/sDJUl53VZt2WrHsrSDRlnKPbMUbEOUigv+rJCFr6Y DCImpFNmoUbZrpSkCvJFon1wzY/e9Ybb1PrczlcEyyJg56n0kgAfuySQADEqq47HGraur10wN te7xFRAMIE0ykUP/6Qtvz+KRHV/4+S7732c8AfKXpNXmftukOkfvdXC8KH8QUFh7agv3o3IQ6 HH7bqOjGwYCdsRV1j8xQoSmbRJZean4oWPCa3UKLlLmGg+vhSNl7taiSkK0fRQSxXR8jqrBWY 3GL5bHkI7642+6vFmEA9UpmMi+gsQVxCCuV/iUUXNsLlJw3KfEz0bTnAdqa3EboMC9+DbgCBP 9HEgyuL7hCwZ8BQHOwnMrAhpXWwYncXGTBGq24h/9He5NjglbajV+6Ivs3d7FQaCntN8N27BO UNeDZBoBJ7JQcgkaKSAX35Hi3sGzPlwi6d5g8Vu86gMr4YhAHjiEnMhs6YuWfTOrKhIBj7jqZ NyVZ6+MMFfUoFj71z0Wgfm6vVlBn7rcpYx4at+lowdlDWKNCm1Ty/uO5sQliykwPCATC9K1Uy oT0x0rUH4vfl7byGQrBUkQPKcXAJp0gVllLmY+sk7brCCIkAAIku7JEhRLGvpe+t1GpZWogPr Iu1g2cpLxppJJpQ6ZKbgISmHuGVlOBCQnPRonRdLLGCVJ+JEkJeIBmYaTnib63J0oH4fady0v CcdTHvNg2n2Sdi4dFyFYD2KDBQ6+S8pUi/hHodfpDBNuDRBQOyeD4h3qJW8yCA7FCiiL9NSIE mjOyiej1sgIwWdDKayEsGnhraUNqjjwMYe+pfAKXgPGzFZv17uVtJ1saZDPRmcu0tXthh1DB7 RUfQaJMQn7HXrNCsFi8xEXZ8zq+5gt+IKbAf5YPkN0Cjt8O66MFOrhe6oxJOLm/TRsBMfceGo reetP4flN2fjPc90AvPy7/C9QyjU/iKtikagnrWTxIJuF29jf5WO3J2NxPlapuKFDSQyiX3hk m2QA3Up2msJoAeZN83QvfXry0ArID+CZrZeL/UNdfegn4RgsS9Qrnw35FG44oy8ZA57S1Evyk PpATxhhTLa8acTFifFgw9hMifWpvnVP3Psd2aNP2v+hzF6FJH8fo4KV90EBgaMo+9+TilBGew GGxh9ekW5NpeTYoceOETrgawXp96TYUc7GmcJzN91ig/gbrS7H+aLnkDTHwQZlvOJRNi3YLhl /spgR+/k/f1/WvivBsf3o83YxktD6eqmQPU1oWcEF+Df9c359PON2z26IMZwFligycQ9S+Fun JTDC6GOrmuPT741GGFwDsKPiMLh+6xuOQMEUKo1ULORlXpaeOywnWkI9g5jyTD8X2lSL05IJk IIFWqFKZ6mWPYSAuCLyNEmLJt7yPgA6Wc/xJ0lVIn X-UI-Loop:V01:9inmD++zrUk=:tQ9j+dEJcA50PEx4+ShGOGJGTwx4Ks8tnzET/Xa2iNw= Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 7492 Lars Hellstr=F6m writes: > Oh yes. One of the really big mistakes people make when trying to > implement mathematics is believing that the mathematical formula > language is consistent, just because it is precise. Juxtaposition can > denote pretty much *anything* (depending on context), and because > juxtaposition is multiplication, it follows that pretty much anything > can be regarded as a kind of multiplication. ;-) More like "anything can be regarded as a kind of linear operator with respect to the following expression". d/dx is not really something you "multiply" with. Everybody is comfortable writing and reading x=A0y, but when it is x=A0x, it looks suspicious. When you take something like Fourier transforms, linear time-invariant operators _are_ a multiplication after transform. If you take the t->f kind of transform electrical engineers prefer (because you don't need to fiddle with asymmetric or weird scaling factors), you can basically say \nabla -> 2\pi \vec f Which makes little sense on the surface, but a rot written as \nabla \times transforms to 2\pi \vec f \times, a div written as \nabla \cdot transforms to 2\pi \vec f \cdot, a gradient written as \nabla \phi transforms to 2\pi \vec f \Phi, so for a number of purposes, operator juxtaposition works in a rather multiplication-like manner. Of course, like with other mathematical jigglery-pokery in engineering professions, you'll not find anything in the books used to teach the engineers, and the books used to teach mathematicians use completely other terminology and conventions not convenient for the kind of vector analysis an engineer might want to do. And the theoretical physicists do something else entirely in order not to get caught in the crosswinds. You'll be returning to your regular scheduled topic of LaTeX after the break. --=20 David Kastrup