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(VPS 110922-1, 22.09.2011), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:sVH5xdDUEaKcb0vO1DW0CTIB5kR7vF71AfVfjtgy3sb QSSTWjO4Xr4R8+Yo+ApTEhsdWAMSoYemPlwiMTUhu+We6M9k1R C1akCiR8rsy4a3OGNqDER+RDlKFQ7qljCIoq3SPku2xFCEi2I+ FOwWsSmulrcxwXBgEEa2leIizahhGcM79TVm9W3mXq6CP+uxkA K9r4D3f7+iR4Z1edCoqMmPr9xhORdL0r9VE+9akbi/XFUin+Sb 7SJ6UmJ/PgqUj4r2ufR081dUrNlTRyDQj0Co7KxZp5JrrNLrsS djL8C4ObxrtpyS2DqSKKmrQfpOIhzP/bCUin8pBb1kiu47C8fX GnDMdIPvV9CvO1ExumcGu+jodB6FT0LD0MWDbPN4/ Message-ID: <4E7BAA96.5000506@latex-project.org> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 23:37:26 +0200 Reply-To: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project Sender: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project From: Frank Mittelbach Subject: Re: \interlinepenalties To: LATEX-L@listserv.uni-heidelberg.de In-Reply-To: <4E7B8BC3.8080408@morningstar2.co.uk> Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-GMX-Antispam: 0 (eXpurgate); Detail=5D7Q89H36p5x1RWm4Ldx8s9yiUs4bd0iF5aBAk7274Xw+iSQ1e9/khhs+tykR8CkcjMfZ 43HUhiI0p//dKgd8f1y0up0QWUIhhgjSg+wC4E9Cg9/UcK817Ot1Wfsk+1UUDLc/fj0P68JJGohk diCBNVrCTZGfA3ztIcmIG/CD3W5RwmziHUUkIjjzKJDudEKsB3QGPL8t90=V1; X-Resent-By: Forwarder X-Resent-For: rainer.schoepf@gmx.net X-Resent-To: rainer@rainer-schoepf.de Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 6899 Am 22.09.2011 21:25, schrieb Joseph Wright: >> In TeX the display counts as 3 lines (regardless of the number of real >> lines it would occupy in a grid system). > > We should document that as part of the galley: I didn't know that :-) > >>> The >>> \clubpenalty => \clubpenalties is easy to understand, as both are >>> related to the start of a paragraph. >> >> not quite \clubpenalties refer to the beginning of every partial >> paragraph. However \clubpenalty only refers to the penalty after the >> first line of a paragraph. > > The interesting thing is that this is not the case. While I can't find > it in The TeXbook or TeX by Topic, using \tracingall shows that, as the > e-TeX manual says, \clubpenalty applies to each _partial_ paragraph. For > example, try looks like a typical lie from the TeX book (as Don said somewhere in the book he does that sometimes). I just checked the code, it is indeed apply at each start of a partial paragraph, but widowpenalty is applied only to the very end; in front of a display \displaywidowpenalty is used instead). > So e-TeX\d generalisation is correct, its more that it's somewhat > different to the one I expected :-) yes looks like it. >> Point is when I want to have at least 3 lines after a heading I should set >> >> >> \interlinepenalties = 3 10000 10000 1000 >> >> \interlinepenalties = 0 >> >> now if that para contains a display I still get only 3 lines fixed to >> the heading. of course my example above is wrong first of all I missed out one 0 but more importantly the last value is repeated so you have to write instead \interlinepenalties = 4 10000 10000 10000 0 if you want to achieve what I claimed > What it seems is needed is an interface that makes sense, i.e. which > separates out: > > 1) The general interline penalty > 2) The penalty for lines(s) at the start of the paragraph as a whole > 3) The penalty for lines(s) at the end of the paragraph as a whole > 4) The penalty for line(s) before display math > 5) The penalty for line(s) after display math > 6) Additional penalties between arbitrary lines > > or some such structure. This will require a bit of thought, as it means > synchronising the various primitives in an ordered way. yep. > One additional note from my experiments is that \interlinepenalties is > reset by \par, in the same way \parshape is. I can't see this mentioned > anywhere. In contrast, neither \interlinepenalty nor \clubpenalties are! > Quite surprising. looks like an oversight in the e-TeX manual. But it does make a lot of sense to do this (actually very nice because that means you don't have to bother about resetting). As i said the main use case was preventing pagebreaks for a while (couple of lines) after something like a heading, so essentially a onetime operation, while culb and widow penaltis are intended for the general visual behavior of (i like always at least 1 or tw lines of a paragraph on a page if possible) so that this is typically a setting that you want to generally apply. however that is inconsistent with \interlinepenalty which stays the way it is forever. cheers frank