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Date:         Mon, 29 Aug 2011 09:42:35 -0700
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From: Paul Thompson <patjah@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Subject: Re: missing or unclear concept documentation
To: LATEX-L@listserv.uni-heidelberg.de
In-Reply-To:  <4E5BBD69.6040403@gmx.de>
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I'm in agreement with Arno.=0A=0A=C2=A0=0APaul Thompson/Joy Hembel=0A=0A=0A=
Professor and Senior Scientist=0ADirector, Methodology and Data Analysis Ce=
nter=0ASanford Research=0A900 W Delaware=0ASioux Falls, SD    57104=0A=0A=
=0AO: 605-312-6462=0AM: 618-974-0473=0AH: 605-332-1587=0AF: 605-328-0401=0A=
=0A=0A909 N. Charleston Circle=0ASioux Falls, SD 57110=0A605-332-1587=0A=0A=
=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Arno Trautmann <Arno.Trautmann@=
GMX.DE>=0ATo: LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE=0ASent: Monday, August 29,=
 2011 11:25 AM=0ASubject: Re: missing or unclear concept documentation=0A=
=0AHi all,=0A=0AFrank Mittelbach wrote:=0A>> (I'm starting to like expl3 qu=
ite a lot.=0A=0AMe too ;)=0A=0A>> But I'm still unsure about=0A>> the concr=
ete meaning of some concepts, this make it a bit difficult=0A>> to decide i=
n which part of the documentation to look for something.=0A> =0A> any ident=
ification of such parts you feel unsure about would be helpful=0A> I guess.=
 Might be difficult to articulate, but please try.=0A=0AI'm not Ulrike, but=
 I may have a similar problem: My usage of l3* stuff is: If I have a proble=
m, I try to find a solution in the documentation, and if does what it shoul=
d anyhow, I'm satisfied. However, often I just don't understand the concept=
s of the whole stuff. Which is also (besides heavy time problems) a reason =
why I don't try to contribute to the development.=0A=0A> Joseph is making q=
uite some effort to improve on the overall=0A> documentation but we are wel=
l aware that documentation of certain=0A> general concepts is effectively m=
issing or bad and I'm sure some=0A> concepts we take for granted (having wo=
rked with it for quite a while)=0A> may not at all be obvious to new users=
=0A=0AMaybe a two-page introduction in the documentation describing the bas=
ic concepts would be helpfull. And, maybe even more important, at least for=
 me personally, a kind-of-a-roadmap where the development is going. That ma=
y be in three parts, short-term, middle-term and long-term. Maybe it is my =
personal fault, but I have no idea of where L3 is supposed to go, in which =
steps, etc. If it is the policy of the team to keep this non-public, it is =
sad, but ok. If not, it should be made more public =E2=80=93 that doesn't h=
ave to be much text, nor must it be too concrete or ultimate decisions. The=
 L3 news are a good step in that direction, but they mostly =E2=80=9Conly=
=E2=80=9D report on what has happened.=0A=0Acheers=0AArno
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:bo=
okman old style, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>I'm in a=
greement with Arno.</span></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Paul Thompson/Joy Hem=
bel<br><br></div><div>Professor and Senior Scientist<br>Director, Methodolo=
gy and Data Analysis Center<br>Sanford Research<br>900 W Delaware<br>Sioux =
Falls, SD    57104</div><br><br><div>O: 605-312-6462<br>M: 618-974-0473<br>=
H: 605-332-1587<br>F: 605-328-0401</div><div><br><br></div><div>909 N. Char=
leston Circle<br>Sioux Falls, SD 57110<br>605-332-1587<br><div style=3D"fon=
t-family: bookman old style, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div=
 style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: =
12pt;"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><hr size=3D"1"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Arno Trautmann &lt;Arno.Trautmann@GMX.DE&g=
t;<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
 LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;=
">Sent:</span></b> Monday, August 29, 2011 11:25 AM<br><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: missing or unclear concept docume=
ntation<br></font><br>Hi all,<br><br>Frank Mittelbach wrote:<br>&gt;&gt; (I=
'm starting to like expl3 quite a lot.<br><br>Me too ;)<br><br>&gt;&gt; But=
 I'm still unsure about<br>&gt;&gt; the concrete meaning of some concepts, =
this make it a bit difficult<br>&gt;&gt; to decide in which part of the doc=
umentation to look for something.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; any identification of su=
ch parts you feel unsure about would be helpful<br>&gt; I guess. Might be d=
ifficult to articulate, but please try.<br><br>I'm not Ulrike, but I may ha=
ve a similar problem: My usage of l3* stuff is: If I have a problem, I try =
to find a solution in the documentation, and if does what it should anyhow,=
 I'm satisfied. However, often I just don't understand the concepts of
 the whole stuff. Which is also (besides heavy time problems) a reason why =
I don't try to contribute to the development.<br><br>&gt; Joseph is making =
quite some effort to improve on the overall<br>&gt; documentation but we ar=
e well aware that documentation of certain<br>&gt; general concepts is effe=
ctively missing or bad and I'm sure some<br>&gt; concepts we take for grant=
ed (having worked with it for quite a while)<br>&gt; may not at all be obvi=
ous to new users<br><br>Maybe a two-page introduction in the documentation =
describing the basic concepts would be helpfull. And, maybe even more impor=
tant, at least for me personally, a kind-of-a-roadmap where the development=
 is going. That may be in three parts, short-term, middle-term and long-ter=
m. Maybe it is my personal fault, but I have no idea of where L3 is suppose=
d to go, in which steps, etc. If it is the policy of the team to keep this =
non-public, it is sad, but ok. If not, it should be made more public
 =E2=80=93 that doesn't have to be much text, nor must it be too concrete o=
r ultimate decisions. The L3 news are a good step in that direction, but th=
ey mostly =E2=80=9Conly=E2=80=9D report on what has happened.<br><br>cheers=
<br>Arno<br><br><br></div></div></div></div></body></html>
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