Received: from mx0.gmx.net (mx0.gmx.net [213.165.64.100]) by h1439878.stratoserver.net (8.14.2/8.14.2/Debian-2build1) with SMTP id p7TGRx3h023842 for ; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 18:28:00 +0200 Received: (qmail 750 invoked by alias); 29 Aug 2011 16:27:54 -0000 Delivered-To: GMX delivery to rainer.schoepf@gmx.net Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 29 Aug 2011 16:27:54 -0000 Received: from relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (EHLO relay2.uni-heidelberg.de) [129.206.210.211] by mx0.gmx.net (mx011) with SMTP; 29 Aug 2011 18:27:54 +0200 Received: from listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.94]) by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p7TGPVRI001101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 29 Aug 2011 18:25:31 +0200 Received: from listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id p7TElnc4006217; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 18:25:30 +0200 Received: by LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 16.0) with spool id 1612338 for LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 18:25:30 +0200 Received: from relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (relay2.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.210.211]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id p7TGPUAS030722 for ; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 18:25:30 +0200 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.22]) by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id p7TGPCNw000962 for ; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 18:25:15 +0200 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 29 Aug 2011 16:25:12 -0000 Received: from vpn061a.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de (EHLO [129.206.196.61]) [129.206.196.61] by mail.gmx.net (mp012) with SMTP; 29 Aug 2011 18:25:12 +0200 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/B9FxzZ3LB6IdlsrI6g2dcp2vuW8R5cw2z46TDYn E3jPiRm5hIbn7n User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:6.0) Gecko/20110816 Thunderbird/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4E5B6BF7.80208@morningstar2.co.uk> <4E5BA7FC.8060705@latex-project.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <4E5BBD69.6040403@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 18:25:13 +0200 Reply-To: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project Sender: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project From: Arno Trautmann Subject: Re: missing or unclear concept documentation To: LATEX-L@listserv.uni-heidelberg.de In-Reply-To: <4E5BA7FC.8060705@latex-project.org> Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-GMX-Antispam: 0 (BackTrace mail analyze); Detail=5D7Q89H36p4L00VTXC6D4q0N+AH0PUCnGL2vqOgpaBYL16oitsMrgDt/NQNpSCZFFjDOy 97xb7Zpf+wZnd5ZXNcvLDXR3Wg3wRjdQbwEMh8=V1; X-Resent-By: Forwarder X-Resent-For: rainer.schoepf@gmx.net X-Resent-To: rainer@rainer-schoepf.de Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 6842 Hi all, Frank Mittelbach wrote: >> (I'm starting to like expl3 quite a lot. Me too ;) >> But I'm still unsure about >> the concrete meaning of some concepts, this make it a bit difficult >> to decide in which part of the documentation to look for something. > > any identification of such parts you feel unsure about would be helpful > I guess. Might be difficult to articulate, but please try. I'm not Ulrike, but I may have a similar problem: My usage of l3* stuff is: If I have a problem, I try to find a solution in the documentation, and if does what it should anyhow, I'm satisfied. However, often I just don't understand the concepts of the whole stuff. Which is also (besides heavy time problems) a reason why I don't try to contribute to the development. > Joseph is making quite some effort to improve on the overall > documentation but we are well aware that documentation of certain > general concepts is effectively missing or bad and I'm sure some > concepts we take for granted (having worked with it for quite a while) > may not at all be obvious to new users Maybe a two-page introduction in the documentation describing the basic concepts would be helpfull. And, maybe even more important, at least for me personally, a kind-of-a-roadmap where the development is going. That may be in three parts, short-term, middle-term and long-term. Maybe it is my personal fault, but I have no idea of where L3 is supposed to go, in which steps, etc. If it is the policy of the team to keep this non-public, it is sad, but ok. If not, it should be made more public – that doesn't have to be much text, nor must it be too concrete or ultimate decisions. The L3 news are a good step in that direction, but they mostly “only” report on what has happened. cheers Arno