Received: from mx0.gmx.net (mx0.gmx.net [213.165.64.100]) by h1439878.stratoserver.net (8.14.2/8.14.2/Debian-2build1) with SMTP id p29H9sbO007675 for ; Wed, 9 Mar 2011 18:09:55 +0100 Received: (qmail 8161 invoked by alias); 9 Mar 2011 17:09:49 -0000 Delivered-To: GMX delivery to rainer.schoepf@gmx.net Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 09 Mar 2011 17:09:49 -0000 Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de (EHLO relay.uni-heidelberg.de) [129.206.100.212] by mx0.gmx.net (mx067) with SMTP; 09 Mar 2011 18:09:49 +0100 Received: from listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.94]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p29H7hji007059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 9 Mar 2011 18:07:43 +0100 Received: from listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id p29FdUJY005446; Wed, 9 Mar 2011 18:07:42 +0100 Received: by LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 16.0) with spool id 1266753 for LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Wed, 9 Mar 2011 18:07:42 +0100 Received: from relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (relay2.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.210.211]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id p29H7fBa018506 for ; Wed, 9 Mar 2011 18:07:41 +0100 Received: from na3sys009aog105.obsmtp.com (na3sys009aog105.obsmtp.com [74.125.149.75]) by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id p29H7SCa000590 for ; Wed, 9 Mar 2011 18:07:33 +0100 Received: from source ([65.167.125.41]) by na3sys009aob105.postini.com ([74.125.148.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTXez0ALofL8/p9z6NEYxhY0DlVk4zqNx@postini.com; Wed, 09 Mar 2011 09:07:33 PST Received: from [192.168.21.159] (charon.frycomm.com [65.167.125.1]) by olympus.frycomm.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 919D4213D3 for ; Wed, 9 Mar 2011 12:07:26 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) References: <4D738DB1.3020807@gmx.de> <19831.22704.372331.894399@morse.mittelbach-online.de> <56ED2B8C-74D6-4163-A98C-52B8CA052724@frycomm.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de id p29H7fBa018507 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 12:07:27 -0500 Reply-To: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project Sender: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project From: William Adams Subject: Re: format? To: LATEX-L@listserv.uni-heidelberg.de In-Reply-To: Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-GMX-Antispam: 0 (Mail was not recognized as spam); Detail=5D7Q89H36p77e5KAPs1l6v/Sb97LojnDtMgfETrECMLUO9erHzOJe+OynZRhvlGqb5A0X bbiCt2rAnnct/NAlbHMvoAL6GY+23tB3khNK7bp7qqSbssdDTHsQd8+gWzfjr4OMj5ambWQGofKK 3vIsQ==V1; X-Resent-By: Forwarder X-Resent-For: rainer.schoepf@gmx.net X-Resent-To: rainer@rainer-schoepf.de Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 6655 On Mar 9, 2011, at 11:48 AM, Philipp Stephani wrote: > Am 09.03.2011 um 15:51 schrieb William Adams: > >> On Mar 9, 2011, at 5:38 AM, Frank Mittelbach wrote: >> >>> Now you can say that if somebody starts of the document with >>> >>> \usepackage{expl3,xparse,template} >>> >>> say then everything will be fine whether or not the document will be produced >>> by ordinary 2e format or 2x. >>> >>> But history will tell us that what is likely to happen is that people start >>> writing documents that will not \RequirePackage/\usepackage >> >> Would it be possible to build the format in such a way that the packages in question are built into it, but not activated unless such line(s) were present in the document? > > I thought about this issue, but how should this be done on the technical level? Once you have defined a TeX macro, there is no way to "deactivate" it. I had the hope that it would be possible to require either \NeedsTeXFormat{LaTeX2x} or \usepackage{expl3...}, but I don't think there is a simple way to do this. Okay, how about one defines all the macros using in-accessible names, then the \usepackage call \lets them to the proper, accessible names? This should still give the desired time-savings while requiring that \usepackage be called. William -- William Adams senior graphic designer Fry Communications Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.