Received: from mx0.gmx.net (mx0.gmx.net [213.165.64.100]) by h1439878.stratoserver.net (8.14.2/8.14.2/Debian-2build1) with SMTP id p26FGG0F029701 for ; Sun, 6 Mar 2011 16:16:18 +0100 Received: (qmail 10725 invoked by alias); 6 Mar 2011 15:16:11 -0000 Delivered-To: GMX delivery to rainer.schoepf@gmx.net Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 06 Mar 2011 15:16:11 -0000 Received: from relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (EHLO relay2.uni-heidelberg.de) [129.206.210.211] by mx0.gmx.net (mx024) with SMTP; 06 Mar 2011 16:16:11 +0100 Received: from listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.94]) by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p26FEJC1026086 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 6 Mar 2011 16:14:19 +0100 Received: from listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id p25N14ER025519; Sun, 6 Mar 2011 16:14:13 +0100 Received: by LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 16.0) with spool id 1207565 for LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Sun, 6 Mar 2011 16:14:13 +0100 Received: from relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (relay2.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.210.211]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id p26FEDYJ009660 for ; Sun, 6 Mar 2011 16:14:13 +0100 Received: from lon1-post-2.mail.demon.net (lon1-post-2.mail.demon.net [195.173.77.149]) by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p26FE1Bd026007 for ; Sun, 6 Mar 2011 16:14:04 +0100 Received: from morningstar2.demon.co.uk ([80.176.134.7] helo=palladium.local) by lon1-post-2.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) id 1PwFei-0003GQ-cb; Sun, 06 Mar 2011 15:14:01 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.14) Gecko/20110221 Thunderbird/3.1.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4D738DB1.3020807@gmx.de> <4D738FA8.8050509@morningstar2.co.uk> <4D739437.4040802@gmx.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <4D73A4B8.5060108@morningstar2.co.uk> Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 15:14:00 +0000 Reply-To: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project Sender: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project From: Joseph Wright Subject: Re: format? To: LATEX-L@listserv.uni-heidelberg.de In-Reply-To: <4D739437.4040802@gmx.de> Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-GMX-Antispam: 0 (Mail was not recognized as spam); Detail=5D7Q89H36p4U4jfdfC5HDevlx1X2sAZgAaLl3DbFfW0PXxL7WgvovMFXXSEPrACW/b9IW Qp+GhEViZlUW4mdBntgP1X8KwB5tjHCA/yxSZMu7BXBiPs3ujyaoi2xLHDqpg8dk65Dhpb3Lg0c1 iTjGg==V1; X-Resent-By: Forwarder X-Resent-For: rainer.schoepf@gmx.net X-Resent-To: rainer@rainer-schoepf.de Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 6637 On 06/03/2011 14:03, Arno Trautmann wrote: > Well, first, it would show the development. I know several people who > have lost interest in following LaTeX3 development because there is no > visible progress. Unfortunately, 'progress' in this regard I suspect means 'an actual LaTeX3 format'. Can't promise that any time soon, I'm afraid. > Also, it is unpleasant to tell someone about how great > LaTeX3 syntax is but having to tell they have to load a package on top > of l2ε. Well that's also true of any other change - LaTeX2e will not alter, so it's not as though they'll simply be able to expect 'LaTeX' to suddenly gain new abilities without either (1) loading packages or (2) using a different format. > Second, the loading of expl3 stuff would be much faster which would be > favorable especially for short tests – often the preamble takes much > longer to load than the actual compilation time of the document. That is true :-) I'm not opposed to the idea, so here's something to think about. My view is that for a LaTeX3 format the approach should be rather more similar to ConTeXt than LaTeX2e when it comes to engines and output mode. So I've imagined $ latex3 --dvi --pdftex $ latex3 --pdf --luatex an so forth (with --xetex ignoring --dvi for the obvious reasons). Does a similar scheme make sense for a hypothetical 'latex2x'? (I'm going with 'x' for 'extended', and also for 'like LaTeX2e, but clearly a bit further along. Of course, there would need to be some defaults for the above - I guess I'd favour pdfTeX in PDF mode at present. Second question: anything else that should be included that is not in the combined 'release' material (expl3, xparse, xtemplate, xcoffins)? These do load various bits and pieces (for example, graphicx), but I'd like to at least add fixltx2e to the above. -- Joseph Wright