Received: from mail.proteosys.com ([213.139.130.197]) by nummer-3.proteosys with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 3 Jan 2009 17:11:18 +0100 Received: by mail.proteosys.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n03GBGnZ025856 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2009 17:11:17 +0100 Received: from listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.94]) by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n03G7WFV031852 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 3 Jan 2009 17:07:33 +0100 Received: from listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n02N1E68027281; Sat, 3 Jan 2009 17:07:21 +0100 Received: by LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 15.5) with spool id 173338 for LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Sat, 3 Jan 2009 17:07:21 +0100 Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de (relay.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.212]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n03G7L8e012326 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2009 17:07:21 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-1.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-1.mail.demon.net [195.173.77.132]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n03G7DoR023120 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2009 17:07:16 +0100 Received: from morningstar2.demon.co.uk ([80.176.134.7] helo=[192.168.0.4]) by anchor-post-1.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) id 1LJ91t-0004rW-gK for latex-l@listserv.uni-heidelberg.de; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 16:07:13 +0000 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <495F8D32.3080703@morningstar2.co.uk> Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 16:07:14 +0000 Reply-To: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project Sender: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project From: Joseph Wright Subject: \begin{} ... \end{} To: LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-ProteoSys-SPAM-Score: -2.599 () BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 213.139.130.197 Return-Path: owner-latex-l@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jan 2009 16:11:18.0354 (UTC) FILETIME=[E915DB20:01C96DBD] Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5569 Hello all, The recent question about macro names got me thinking about how environments should be implemented in LaTeX3. I think I've seen this mentioned briefly somewhere, but not really worked through. My thinking is that, although using \ ... \end is convenient, it is probably not the best way to (1) keep user and internal macros separate and (2) to show what is going on. I'd therefore imagine a "virtual" module begin used for all of the \begin/\end names, something like: \envs__begin:w % Seems easiest here to use :w \envs__end: That means that the business with \end... is removed from command creation much clearer) and that there is no possibility of accidentally using an environment-starting command without \begin. Of course, this is still "some way off", but it seems worth thinking about in the wider context of refactoring expl3 and discussing keeping user function names under control. -- Joseph Wright