Received: from mail.proteosys.com ([213.139.130.197]) by nummer-3.proteosys with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 30 Mar 2005 10:52:26 +0200 Received: by mail.proteosys.com (8.12.10/8.12.2) with ESMTP id j2U8qONi015082 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2005 10:52:25 +0200 Received: from listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.119.176]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j2U8mifK004034; Wed, 30 Mar 2005 10:48:45 +0200 (MET DST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C53505.CBC94100" Received: from listserv (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.119.176]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.7/8.12.7/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id j2TM0KlJ025093; Wed, 30 Mar 2005 10:46:16 +0200 Received: from LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 187091 for LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Wed, 30 Mar 2005 10:46:15 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (relay2.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.210.211]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.7/8.12.7/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id j2U8kEYd009838 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2005 10:46:14 +0200 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [199.232.76.164]) by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j2U8lxtL002952 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2005 10:47:59 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lola.goethe.zz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DGYqj-0007Hl-8Z for LATEX-L@listserv.uni-heidelberg.de; Wed, 30 Mar 2005 03:46:53 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Donald Arseneau's message of "Tue, 29 Mar 2005 15:47:25 -0800") References: <5.1.0.14.0.20050329212401.02478aa0@pop3.web.de> Return-Path: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Mar 2005 08:52:26.0945 (UTC) FILETIME=[CC597310:01C53505] User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) x-mime-autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de id j2U8kEYd009839 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang at proteosys.com X-ProteoSys-SPAM-Score: 0 () Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: \@reinserts Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 09:46:55 +0100 Message-ID: A X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: \@reinserts Thread-Index: AcU1BcyBJ3RysLw6SRGGVhWYsjUOpQ== From: "David Kastrup" Sender: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" To: Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4850 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53505.CBC94100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Donald Arseneau writes: > Uwe L=FCck writes: > >> At 13:30 26.03.05, you [David Kastrup] wrote: >> >Donald Arseneau writes: >> > >> > > The problem with \penalty\outputpenalty is that = \outputpenalty=3D10000 >> > > and prevents the same page break instead of forcing the same = break. >> > >> >Well, when rebreaking, I find that using \pagediscards seems like = the >> >best thing to do. Then you get the same vertical list again, unless >> >\outputpenalty is less than 10000, in which case you need to = reinsert >> >it in front of the discards (it will be replaced with \nobreak in = the >> >\pagediscards in this case). >> >> And where is \pagediscards available? (Not by a Google search on = CTAN.) > > \pagediscards is an etex primitive (built-in) command. David is > probably right (since he has been looking at that stuff) but I > don't see the benefit, since we want to get the same page break > again. If we are aiming for the same break, indeed the pagediscards are not interesting. Indeed, as opposed to splitdiscards, the page discards are what has been removed at the _start_ of the current output page, not after it. So the pagediscards are only interesting if the _previous_ break might need reversal. Which is what I have to do in my sort of setup, so I probably confused the requirements there with those of the simpler case presented here. > I see no reason to reproduce the exact output penalty, since you are > looking to get the same page break, so I would probably put a > negative penalty there. As the sort of a note aside: a forced penalty will lead to different values of \pagetotal, \pageshrink and so on (more useful values, actually), so if you have some subordinate output routine looking at those values, it might make different decisions. > There are references to \footins in \@specialoutput that have to be > rewritten for the case when \holdinginserts is holding the > inserts. (The whole point of holding them is that they do *not* come > out when cycling through \@specialoutput.) > > I'm not sure that it is even possible to maintain the \@pageht > methods when using \holdinginserts. The page break decisions including splits of insertions and limiting of insertion material to the respective dimen remain the same. It is just that the material does not make it into the boxes, but stays in insertion items in box255. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53505.CBC94100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: \@reinserts

Donald Arseneau <asnd@TRIUMF.CA> writes:

> Uwe L=FCck <uwe.lueck@WEB.DE> = writes:
>
>> At 13:30 26.03.05, you [David Kastrup] = wrote:
>> >Donald Arseneau <asnd@TRIUMF.CA> = writes:
>> >
>> > > The problem with = \penalty\outputpenalty is that \outputpenalty=3D10000
>> > > and prevents the same page break = instead of forcing the same break.
>> >
>> >Well, when rebreaking, I find that using = \pagediscards seems like the
>> >best thing to do.  Then you get the = same vertical list again, unless
>> >\outputpenalty is less than 10000, in = which case you need to reinsert
>> >it in front of the discards (it will be = replaced with \nobreak in the
>> >\pagediscards in this case).
>>
>> And where is \pagediscards available? (Not = by a Google search on CTAN.)
>
> \pagediscards is an etex primitive (built-in) = command.  David is
> probably right (since he has been looking at = that stuff) but I
> don't see the benefit, since we want to get the = same page break
> again.

If we are aiming for the same break, indeed the = pagediscards are not
interesting.  Indeed, as opposed to = splitdiscards, the page discards
are what has been removed at the _start_ of the = current output page,
not after it.  So the pagediscards are only = interesting if the
_previous_ break might need reversal.

Which is what I have to do in my sort of setup, so I = probably confused
the requirements there with those of the simpler case = presented here.

> I see no reason to reproduce the exact output = penalty, since you are
> looking to get the same page break, so I would = probably put a
> negative penalty there.

As the sort of a note aside: a forced penalty will = lead to different
values of \pagetotal, \pageshrink and so on (more = useful values,
actually), so if you have some subordinate output = routine looking at
those values, it might make different = decisions.

> There are references to \footins in = \@specialoutput that have to be
> rewritten for the case when \holdinginserts is = holding the
> inserts. (The whole point of holding them is = that they do *not* come
> out when cycling through = \@specialoutput.)
>
> I'm not sure that it is even possible to = maintain the \@pageht
> methods when using \holdinginserts.

The page break decisions including splits of = insertions and limiting
of insertion material to the respective dimen remain = the same.  It is
just that the material does not make it into the = boxes, but stays in
insertion items in box255.

--
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

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