Received: from mail.proteosys.com ([213.139.130.197]) by nummer-3.proteosys with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:18:59 +0200 Received: by mail.proteosys.com (8.12.10/8.12.2) with ESMTP id i9CGJarT011001 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:19:37 +0200 Received: from listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.119.176]) by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CG3nuB019354; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:03:50 +0200 (MET DST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C4B077.2DD8DB80" Received: from listserv (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.119.176]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.7/8.12.7/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id i9BDwl1T011246; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:02:45 +0200 Received: from LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 665026 for LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:02:44 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de (relay.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.212]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.7/8.12.7/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id i9CG2hRP030341 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:02:44 +0200 Received: from spmler3.mail.eds.com (spmler3.mail.eds.com [194.128.225.186]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CG334i012736 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:03:05 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from spmlir3.mail.eds.com (spmlir3.mail.eds.com [205.191.69.43]) by spmler3.mail.eds.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CG314v005120 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:03:01 +0100 Received: from spmlir3.mail.eds.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spmlir3.mail.eds.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CG2MIL002404 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:02:22 +0100 Received: from derum100.exde01.exch.eds.com ([205.239.192.123]) by spmlir3.mail.eds.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CG2M3H002393 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:02:22 +0100 Received: by derum100.exde01.exch.eds.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id <4C99LZTW>; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:02:16 +0200 Return-Path: X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Oct 2004 16:18:59.0808 (UTC) FILETIME=[2E542600:01C4B077] x-mime-autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de id i9CG2iRP030342 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang at proteosys.com X-ProteoSys-SPAM-Score: 0 () Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: AW: expl3 and experimental Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:02:14 +0100 Message-ID: A<9341E1023059844DBAC47B033D03B2434F1317@derum204.emea.corp.eds.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: expl3 and experimental Thread-Index: AcSwdy53ydozCe3sRR2HLmouQR/bXA== From: "Mittelbach, Frank" Sender: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" To: Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4818 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4B077.2DD8DB80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To give a bit of history: expl3 is the result of older work (including complete trial = implementations of standalone kernels for testing in various flavors) and was intended = to produce a platform for experimentation on top of 2e with the new syntax = and models the experimental xpackages have been developed later using variants of = that syntax (mainly playing around with alternatives) while at the same time exploring actual new concepts (eg for the OR, the template stuff, frontmatter, ...) --- as a result they have quite different conventions = from one module to the next. it is my firm believe after having done (or participated) in these trial developments that a) the original expl3 ideas are sound and better than what was tried as alternatives later on b) that there are a number of glitches in the expl3 that need sorting = out c) that to go on from what is there now the experimental code first = needs consolidation and normalization thus what i'm doing right now is - converting the existing packages in experimental to expl3 - collecting what i think is needed in terms of change/addition to = expl3 i'm in the middle of doing that for xbase, xfrontm, and xor (also alrady wrote up xlang implementing the ideas I presented in Japan on a multi-lingual language model) meaning right now the internals are changing drastically as the packages = are not very uniform in their syntax I hope that this normalization is soon ready. I then intend to make that public for discussion as well as opening a discussion on fixing a final expl3 to be used for further work so to answer what to focus on: i'd say expl3 playing with it and joining = a discussion of streng and weekness (yes you started that already with = our other question) and to look at the explerimental packages only from = their implemented functionality (eg the template interface) but not from their internal implementation frank -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project [mailto:LATEX-L@listserv.uni-heidelberg.de] Im Auftrag von Hendri = Adriaens Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. Oktober 2004 15:41 An: LATEX-L@listserv.uni-heidelberg.de Betreff: Re: expl3 and experimental > Hi, > > now that I am reading the LaTeX3 work, I have the following question: [Hmm, sorry for this redundant mail, slip of the keyboard...] Hi, now that I am reading the LaTeX3 work, I have the following question: = What is the relation of the work located at these places? http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/exptl/project/expl3 http://www.latex-project.org/code/experimental ? More specific, I can find some of the work of the first location = integrated in some files in the second location, but not everything. What should I be focussing on? Thanks, best regards, -Hendri Adriaens. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4B077.2DD8DB80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable AW: expl3 and experimental

To give a bit of history:

expl3 is the result of older work (including complete = trial implementations
of standalone kernels for testing in various flavors) = and was intended to
produce a platform for experimentation on top of 2e = with the new syntax and
models

the experimental xpackages have been developed later = using variants of that
syntax (mainly playing around with alternatives) = while at the same time
exploring actual new concepts (eg for the OR, the = template stuff,
frontmatter, ...) --- as a result they have quite = different conventions from
one module to the next.

it is my firm believe after having done (or = participated) in these trial
developments that

 a) the original expl3 ideas are sound and better = than what was tried as
alternatives later on

 b) that there are a number of glitches in the = expl3 that need sorting out

 c) that to go on from what is there now the = experimental code first needs
consolidation and normalization

thus what i'm doing right now is

 - converting the existing packages in = experimental to expl3
 - collecting what i think is needed in terms of = change/addition to expl3

i'm in the middle of doing that for xbase, xfrontm, = and xor (also alrady
wrote up xlang implementing the ideas I presented in = Japan on a
multi-lingual language model)

meaning right now the internals are changing = drastically as the packages are
not very uniform in their syntax

I hope that this normalization is soon ready. I then = intend to make that
public for discussion as well as opening a discussion = on fixing a final
expl3 to be used for further work

so to answer what to focus on: i'd say expl3 playing = with it and joining a
discussion of  streng and weekness (yes you = started that already with our
other question) and to look at the explerimental = packages only from their
implemented functionality (eg the template interface) = but not from their
internal implementation

frank

-----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project
[mailto:LATEX-L@listser= v.uni-heidelberg.de] Im Auftrag von Hendri Adriaens
Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. Oktober 2004 15:41
An: LATEX-L@listserv.uni-heidelberg.de
Betreff: Re: expl3 and experimental


> Hi,
>
> now that I am reading the LaTeX3 work, I have = the following question:

[Hmm, sorry for this redundant mail, slip of the = keyboard...]

Hi,

now that I am reading the LaTeX3 work, I have the = following question: What
is the relation of the work located at these = places?
http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/exptl/project/expl3
http://www.latex-= project.org/code/experimental ?

More specific, I can find some of the work of the = first location integrated
in some files in the second location, but not = everything.

What should I be focussing on?

Thanks, best regards,
-Hendri Adriaens.

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