Received: from mail.proteosys.com ([213.139.130.197]) by nummer-3.proteosys with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:28:39 +0100 Received: by mail.proteosys.com (8.12.10/8.12.2) with ESMTP id i13HSZ81003707 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:28:37 +0100 Received: from listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.119.176]) by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i13HHMSe016119; Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:17:23 +0100 (MET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C3EA7B.29393D80" Received: from listserv (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.119.176]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.7/8.12.7/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id i13FePNJ027136; Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:17:18 +0100 Received: from LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 0316 for LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:17:17 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (relay2.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.210.211]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.7/8.12.7/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id i13HHHIn028861 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:17:17 +0100 Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.186]) by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i13HHCSe016066 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:17:13 +0100 (MET) Received: from [212.227.126.205] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1Ao4Ah-0007ZP-00 for LATEX-L@listserv.uni-heidelberg.de; Tue, 03 Feb 2004 18:17:11 +0100 Received: from [80.129.11.193] (helo=istrati.mittelbach-online.de) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (TLSv1:EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1Ao4Ac-0004rF-00 for LATEX-L@listserv.uni-heidelberg.de; Tue, 03 Feb 2004 18:17:11 +0100 Received: (from frank@localhost) by istrati.mittelbach-online.de (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) id i13HDOj24080; Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:13:25 +0100 In-Reply-To: References: <200402030416.i134GF419229@beryl.math.u-psud.fr> Return-Path: X-Mailer: VM 6.96 under Emacs 20.7.1 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Feb 2004 17:28:39.0703 (UTC) FILETIME=[29A48270:01C3EA7B] X-Authentication-Warning: istrati.mittelbach-online.de: frank set sender to frank@mittelbach-online.de using -f X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.28 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) X-Spam-Score: 0 () X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:923c546e49b26a7485eda6910e23f403 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: A job for eTeX. Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:13:24 +0100 Message-ID: A<16415.54964.843884.994547@istrati.mittelbach-online.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: A job for eTeX. Thread-Index: AcPqeynaxtYWRRkBTZqP4JHjJ41uEA== From: "Frank Mittelbach" Sender: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" To: Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4754 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3EA7B.29393D80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Peter Schmitt writes: > Yes, colour is an attribute of the font > and therefore it should be handled as such. i think this is an oversimplification. color is an attribute of a = region; if you limit your vision then perhaps an attribute of rendered shapes, but = fonts are only one type of objects that belong to this category. what about = graphical objects like lines etc, what about background, ... i like to think of color being an attribute of the region you render = objects in (and the background is then a third dimension extension to that = region concept) -- none of that is supported in TeX (or eTeX or Omega) as of = now but that is what i think one has to look at for models > Switching the colour of a font is logically > the same as switching to another font. > A font change is efficiently handled by TeX and needs no hack at all, > and for a coloured version of a font a virtual font could be used. well, technically you can do that for coloring glyphs and it is = certainly better than using minimal size changes to signal attributes. however = both methods are more or less impractical in large scale usage (beside being = a hack) and i don't think they implement the right model i'm just about to finish TLC2 which is printed in two color, in total it = uses about 200 fonts (tfms) given different sizes special show cases math etc = etc, a lot of them are used in black *and* in the second color. so just = maintaining a full set of additional tfms to signal color would be a nightmare, = despite that we use the color in examples for rules, picture graphics, and = background frank ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3EA7B.29393D80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: A job for eTeX.

Peter Schmitt writes:

 > Yes, colour is an attribute of the = font
 >      and = therefore it should be handled as such.

i think this is an oversimplification. color is an = attribute of a region; if
you limit your vision then perhaps an attribute of = rendered shapes, but fonts
are only one type of objects that belong to this = category. what about graphical
objects like lines etc, what about background, = ...

i like to think of color being an attribute of the = region you render objects
in (and the background is then a third dimension = extension to that region
concept) -- none of that is supported in TeX (or eTeX = or Omega) as of now but
that is what i think one has to look at for = models


 > Switching the colour of a font is = logically
 >      the same as = switching to another font.
 > A font change is efficiently handled by = TeX and needs no hack at all,
 >   and for a coloured version of = a font a virtual font could be used.

well, technically you can do that for coloring glyphs = and it is certainly
better than using minimal size changes to signal = attributes. however both
methods are more or less impractical in large scale = usage (beside being a
hack)  and i don't think they implement the = right model

i'm just about to finish TLC2 which is printed in two = color, in total it uses
about 200 fonts (tfms) given different sizes special = show cases math etc etc,
a lot of them are used in black *and* in the second = color. so just maintaining
a full set of additional tfms to signal color would = be a nightmare, despite
that we use the color in examples for rules, picture = graphics, and background

frank

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