Received: from mail.proteosys.com ([213.139.130.197]) by nummer-3.proteosys with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:10:31 +0200 Received: by mail.proteosys.com (8.12.9/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h6IIANSb005198 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:10:29 +0200 Received: from listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.27]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6II1nmp026457; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:01:49 +0200 (MET DST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C34D57.DFE00580" Received: from listserv (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.27]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id h6HM0Dih008378; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:01:08 +0200 Received: from LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 1236 for LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:01:08 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (relay2.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.210.211]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id h6II18M9020714 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:01:08 +0200 Received: from smtp.albany.edu (mail1.csc.albany.edu [169.226.1.133]) by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6II1ZGl002652 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:01:35 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from hilbert.math.albany.edu (hilbert.math.albany.edu [169.226.23.52]) by smtp.albany.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h6II1W3v002805 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:01:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from hammond@localhost) by hilbert.math.albany.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h6II1V5t024049; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:01:31 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: Lines: 50 References: <20030710081528.A12401@diabolo.informatik.rwth-aachen.de> <16150.26432.179873.408825@pussy.npc.de> <200307171952.38152.tim@birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie> Return-Path: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jul 2003 18:10:32.0868 (UTC) FILETIME=[E0FD0E40:01C34D57] User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 x-mime-autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de id h6II18M9020715 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.33 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) X-Spam-Score: -33.4 () EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,QUOTE_TWICE_1,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: XML, UTF-8 and TeX engines Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 19:01:31 +0100 Message-ID: A X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Re: XML, UTF-8 and TeX engines Thread-Index: AcNNV+ESQ+sd+scYSduAROK4GIYEVg== From: "William F Hammond" To: Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4713 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C34D57.DFE00580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Torsten Bronger writes: > >> XML doesn't do it and I find this very convenient. In (La)TeX, = for > > > > This statement about XML is not helpful without reference to a > > particular document type. So I guess you accept that point, but perhaps I did not need to say it for your benefit. > > For example, gellmu article does provide elements called "math" and > > "displaymath", which when formatted to LaTeX switch on the > > corresponding math mode. > > Well, you cut off the citation too soon. I am talking about > character treatment only, and in > I write "the program > -- or XML file format -- must provide a way to mark math areas, and > it must apply rules or whatever to typeset accordingly." Yes, sorry, I was reading too fast. > > As LaTeX is evolving it will be possible for gellmu's "alpha" (an > > empty element marked up in Gellmu source as \alpha) to be formatted = in > > LaTeX as (math) \alpha when recursively inside a math element and = not > > inside either of gellmu's "mbox" or "text", while outside of math > > "alpha" could easily be morphed to a suitable unicode point. > > So you distuguish between both cases within your Gellmu tools? > Okay, we have to, I do so, too; but actually I think that this is > something that the typesetter should provide. So, an \alpha in math > mode should be cmmi, and in text mode is must be part of a Greek > word. One way or another there should be a distinction. But I want gellmu article to be able to reach xhtml+mathml and for this I want to have a source markup way of identifying math symbols. For that purpose it is convenient for me to hold on to (the xml form of \alpha) until the end of any pipeline. Beyond that I think it inefficient use of xml structure to look individually at items of cdata. So my formatter is willing to think about how to handle but not about how to handle =E1 (which will be understood only as the unicode object that it is and which, therefore, should not be found loose inside math). (The last sentence is supposed to have a single U+03B1 that is UTF-8 encoded; I don't know what will happen in the mail.) -- Bill ------_=_NextPart_001_01C34D57.DFE00580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: XML, UTF-8 and TeX engines

Torsten Bronger <bronger@PHYSIK.RWTH-AACHEN.DE> = writes:

> >>     XML doesn't do = it and I find this very convenient.  In (La)TeX, for
> >
> > This statement about XML is not helpful = without reference to a
> > particular document type.

So I guess you accept that point, but perhaps I did = not need to say it
for your benefit.

> > For example, gellmu article does provide = elements called "math" and
> > "displaymath", which when = formatted to LaTeX switch on the
> > corresponding math mode.
>
> Well, you cut off the citation too soon.  I = am talking about
> character treatment only, and in
> = <message:m3he5k5ldo.fsf@wilson.rwth-aachen.de> I write "the = program
> -- or XML file format -- must provide a way to = mark math areas, and
> it must apply rules or whatever to typeset = accordingly."

Yes, sorry, I was reading too fast.

> > As LaTeX is evolving it will be possible for = gellmu's "alpha" (an
> > empty element marked up in Gellmu source as = \alpha) to be formatted in
> > LaTeX as (math) \alpha when recursively = inside a math element and not
> > inside either of gellmu's "mbox" = or "text", while outside of math
> > "alpha" could easily be morphed = to a suitable unicode point.
>
> So you distuguish between both cases within your = Gellmu tools?
> Okay, we have to, I do so, too; but actually I = think that this is
> something that the typesetter should = provide.  So, an \alpha in math
> mode should be cmmi, and in text mode is must be = part of a Greek
> word.

One way or another there should be a = distinction.

But I want gellmu article to be able to reach = xhtml+mathml and for
this I want to have a source markup way of = identifying math symbols.
For that purpose it is convenient for me to hold on = to </alpha> (the
xml form of \alpha) until the end of any = pipeline.  Beyond that I
think it inefficient use of xml structure to look = individually at
items of cdata.  So my formatter is willing to = think about how to
handle </alpha> but not about how to handle =E1 = (which will be
understood only as the unicode object that it is and = which, therefore,
should not be found loose inside math).  (The = last sentence is
supposed to have a single U+03B1 that is UTF-8 = encoded; I don't know
what will happen in the mail.)

          &nbs= p;            = ;            = -- Bill

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