Received: from mail.proteosys.com ([213.139.130.197]) by nummer-3.proteosys with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:41:54 +0200 Received: by mail.proteosys.com (8.12.9/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h6HDfgcH032251 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:41:52 +0200 Received: from listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.27]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HDY4mp025844; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:34:04 +0200 (MET DST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C34C69.2EFB3D00" Received: from listserv (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.27]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id h6GM0Aa7028243; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:33:33 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 1872 for LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:33:33 +0200 Received: from relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (relay2.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.210.211]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id h6HDXXM9003140 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:33:33 +0200 Received: from mail.npc.de (fw.npc.de [62.225.140.214]) by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HDXtGl017737 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:33:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by mail.npc.de (Postfix, from userid 1014) id B715A1542; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:33:55 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: References: <20030710081528.A12401@diabolo.informatik.rwth-aachen.de> <78ADDA01-B2DC-11D7-8AE7-0050E4455404@atlis.com> <20030711081704.A14039@diabolo.informatik.rwth-aachen.de> <16146.60345.852158.31606@pussy.npc.de> <16150.26432.179873.408825@pussy.npc.de> Return-Path: X-Mailer: VM 7.04 under 21.4 (patch 8) "Honest Recruiter" XEmacs Lucid X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jul 2003 13:41:55.0134 (UTC) FILETIME=[2FA845E0:01C34C69] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.28 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) X-Spam-Score: -19.8 () IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: XML, UTF-8 and TeX engines Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:33:55 +0100 Message-ID: A<16150.42435.386526.395103@pussy.npc.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Re: XML, UTF-8 and TeX engines Thread-Index: AcNMaS/Fg11CRWW4RauJQvHtnC6/ww== From: "Joachim Schrod" To: Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4685 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C34C69.2EFB3D00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>>>> "TB" =3D=3D Torsten Bronger = writes: TB> Joachim Schrod writes: >> [...] XSLT is a write-only language when it comes to implementing >> the "intermediate steps" above, that's no improvement to TeX macro >> programming. It has poor semantics (like TeX, it's even missing >> elementary boolean clauses), TB> XPath has boolean expressions, and XSLT knows "choose" and "if". has no else part. doesn't accept fully regular boolean expressions, e.g., sometimes NOT conditions are forbidden due to brain damage on the language designer's part. This leads to the point that one has to duplicate code which is always bad for maintenance. >> and its syntax is horrible to read and thus maintenance is hard. TB> Well, it's a matter of getting used to. But you're right, finding TB> fellow developers is very difficult. Sorry, it's more. If you're willing to pay developers, you'll find them. :-) But even then, in mid-sized projects (i.e., > 50,000 lines of XSLT code), many of them have difficulties in reading their own code after a year has passed. I won't want to speak of large projects, they're most often short before disasters. Cheers, Joachim -- =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D= -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D Joachim Schrod Email: jschrod@acm.org Roedermark, Germany ``How do we persuade new users that spreading fonts across the = page like peanut butter across hot toast is not necessarily the route = to typographic excellence?'' -- Peter Flynn ------_=_NextPart_001_01C34C69.2EFB3D00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: XML, UTF-8 and TeX engines

>>>>> "TB" =3D=3D Torsten = Bronger <bronger@PHYSIK.RWTH-AACHEN.DE> writes:
TB> Joachim Schrod <jschrod@ACM.ORG> = writes:

>> [...] XSLT is a write-only language when it = comes to implementing
>> the "intermediate steps" above, = that's no improvement to TeX macro
>> programming. It has poor semantics (like = TeX, it's even missing
>> elementary boolean clauses),

TB> XPath has boolean expressions, and XSLT knows = "choose" and "if".

<xsl:if> has no else part.

<xsl:choose> doesn't accept fully regular = boolean expressions, e.g.,
sometimes NOT conditions are forbidden due to brain = damage on the
language designer's part. This leads to the point = that one has to
duplicate code which is always bad for = maintenance.


>> and its syntax is horrible to read and thus = maintenance is hard.

TB> Well, it's a matter of getting used to.  = But you're right, finding
TB> fellow developers is very difficult.

Sorry, it's more. If you're willing to pay developers, = you'll find
them. :-) But even then, in mid-sized projects (i.e., = > 50,000 lines
of XSLT code), many of them have difficulties in = reading their own
code after a year has passed. I won't want to speak = of large projects,
they're most often short before disasters.

Cheers,
        = Joachim

--
=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D= -=3D-=3D-=3D
Joachim = Schrod           &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;          Email: = jschrod@acm.org
Roedermark, Germany

        ``How do we = persuade new users that spreading fonts across the page
        like = peanut butter across hot toast is not necessarily the route to
        = typographic = excellence?''          =              = -- Peter Flynn

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