Received: from mail.proteosys.com ([213.139.130.197]) by nummer-3.proteosys with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:58:11 +0200 Received: by mail.proteosys.com (8.12.9/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h6BAw9cH005487 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:58:09 +0200 Received: from listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.27]) by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BApVGl009921; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:51:31 +0200 (MET DST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C3479B.5189E380" Received: from listserv (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.27]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id h6B400Wl001562; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:51:10 +0200 Received: from LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 0924 for LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:51:10 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de (relay.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.212]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id h6BApAM9005608 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:51:10 +0200 Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.188]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BApImp004749 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:51:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from [212.227.126.161] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19avUk-0007pY-00 for LATEX-L@listserv.uni-heidelberg.de; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:51:18 +0200 Received: from [212.159.37.223] (helo=MartinHensel.de) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19avUj-0000nQ-00 for LATEX-L@listserv.uni-heidelberg.de; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:51:18 +0200 References: <3BFEACE361F5BF429DD1DA593E3A7C0922406A@xch-nw-28.nw.nos.boeing.com> <3F0BE0E6.E87B2479@MartinHensel.de> <3F0DC260.183ED82C@MartinHensel.de> Return-Path: X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [de] (Win98; U) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2003 10:58:11.0619 (UTC) FILETIME=[51E85730:01C3479B] X-Accept-Language: de,en X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.28 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) X-Spam-Score: -23.9 () EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,QUOTE_TWICE_1,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_XM Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: Invitation for discussion: My suggestion for a LaTeX3 syntax Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:50:21 +0100 Message-ID: A<3F0E966D.E44220AB@MartinHensel.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Re: Invitation for discussion: My suggestion for a LaTeX3 syntax Thread-Index: AcNHm1IQPtE3LXvJRqa/XtGPJ+RsSw== From: "Martin Hensel" To: Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4678 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3479B.5189E380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable William F Hammond schrieb: > > Martin Hensel writes: > > > My conviction is that the current LaTeX syntax can be improved > > with regard to legibility. > > Legibility is in the eye of the beholder. Only at a very fine level. You may argue about this statement with specialists in typography as well. My issues were based on observations of human perception. For different humans, this does differs only in very minor parts. Gestalt phychology, for instance, is based the way we see our world. (If there were three trees in front of a house, you still could regocnise the house as one entity. [abc] In fact, is is very hard, if not impossible to ignore it.) Furthermore, nobody can deny that a text that needs additional cognitive work (to apply a more complex system in order to be able to determine the end of an entity), is harder to read. > To say that your issues were addressed is not to say they were > addressed in your way. Of course, but I see only any attempts to improve the LaTeX syntax: the ';' delimiter at the end of commands in order to get rid of the space-after-command problem. > > As far as I > > understand GELLMU, this project tries to use the LaTeX syntax to > > produce HTML documents, > > Really, _any_ XML document type. Yes, I know. You removed a "for instance" from my quote. > > with improving the LaTeX syntax. Maybe you can point me to the > > correct page? > > For example, look at the source (suffix ".glm") of the manual in > http://www.albany.edu/~hammond/gellmu/glman/ The only difference to the LaTeX syntax I could see are the different treatment of command ends \tex; Directory \tex;Live \tex;-related \tex; running with \sgml document types \gellmu's \latex;, \dps. \sgml? \item \bold{The \st.} \ This is a \gurl/examples/gfaq.html and the possibility that a space after a command with parameters is ignored (p. 11). \anch[href=3D"http://www.w3.org/"]{W3C} HQ, Did I miss something else? > Then a translation to LaTeX is obtained from > that. It might be possible to have a future LaTeX engine handle > gellmu article source for a more direct route to dvi or pdf. Of course it will be possible to write a GELLMU parser for LaTeX3. Martin ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3479B.5189E380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: Invitation for discussion: My suggestion for a LaTeX3 = syntax

William F Hammond schrieb:
>
> Martin Hensel <mail@MARTINHENSEL.DE> = writes:
>
> > My conviction is that the current LaTeX = syntax can be improved
> > with regard to legibility.
>
> Legibility is in the eye of the beholder.

Only at a very fine level. You may argue about this = statement with
specialists in typography as well.
My issues were based on observations of human = perception. For
different humans, this does differs only in very = minor parts. Gestalt
phychology, for instance, is based the way we see our = world. (If there
were three trees in front of a house, you still could = regocnise the
house as one entity. [abc] In fact, is is very hard, = if not impossible
to ignore it.)
Furthermore, nobody can deny that a text that needs = additional
cognitive work (to apply a more complex system in = order to be able to
determine the end of an entity), is harder to = read.

> To say that your issues were addressed is not to = say they were
> addressed in your way.

Of course, but I see only any attempts to improve the = LaTeX syntax:
the ';' delimiter at the end of commands in order to = get rid of the
space-after-command problem.

> = >           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =     As far as I
> > understand GELLMU, this project tries to = use the LaTeX syntax to
> > produce HTML documents,
>
> Really, _any_ XML document type.

Yes, I know. You removed a "for instance" = from my quote.

> > with improving the LaTeX syntax. Maybe you = can point me to the
> > correct page?
>
> For example, look at the source (suffix = ".glm") of the manual in
> http://www.albany.e= du/~hammond/gellmu/glman/

The only difference to the LaTeX syntax I could see = are the different
treatment of command ends

  \tex; Directory
  \tex;Live
  \tex;-related
  \tex; running with
  \sgml document types
  \gellmu's
  \latex;,
  \dps.
  \sgml?
  \item \bold{The \st.} \ This is a
  \gurl/examples/gfaq.html

and the possibility that a space after a command with = parameters is
ignored (p. 11).

  \anch[href=3D"http://www.w3.org/"]{W3C} = HQ,

Did I miss something else?

> Then a translation to LaTeX is obtained = from
> that.  It might be possible to have a = future LaTeX engine handle
> gellmu article source for a more direct route to = dvi or pdf.

Of course it will be possible to write a GELLMU parser = for LaTeX3.

Martin

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