Received: from mail.proteosys.com ([62.225.9.49]) by nummer-3.proteosys with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Sun, 4 May 2003 22:10:20 +0200 Received: by mail.proteosys.com (8.12.9/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h44KAHPQ024632 for ; Sun, 4 May 2003 22:10:18 +0200 Received: from sun.dante.de (root@sun.dante.de [134.100.9.52]) by rzdspc1.informatik.uni-hamburg.de (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h44KA5lq025775 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 4 May 2003 22:10:05 +0200 (CEST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C31279.2FDF1E00" Received: from rzdspc1.informatik.uni-hamburg.de (root@rzdspc1.informatik.uni-hamburg.de [134.100.9.61]) by sun.dante.de (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h44K9ne1014650; Sun, 4 May 2003 22:09:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mutant.triumf.ca (mutant.Triumf.CA [142.90.112.22]) by rzdspc1.informatik.uni-hamburg.de (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h44K9ilp025745; Sun, 4 May 2003 22:09:44 +0200 (CEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: (from asnd@localhost) by mutant.triumf.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA26814; Sun, 4 May 2003 13:15:38 -0700 In-Reply-To: Frank Mittelbach's message of "Sun, 4 May 2003 17:56:59 +0200" Lines: 46 Organization: TRIUMF: Canada's national meson facility References: <16051.47545.433641.880408@istrati.mittelbach-online.de><200305041506.h44F6J73012236@postman.arcor.de><16053.14411.19419.666172@istrati.mittelbach-online.de> Return-Path: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 May 2003 20:10:20.0508 (UTC) FILETIME=[302CA1C0:01C31279] User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.7 X-Authentication-Warning: mutant.triumf.ca: asnd set sender to asnd@triumf.ca using -f X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.28 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) X-Spam-Score: -34.4 () EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,QUOTE_TWICE_1,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA,X_AUTH_WARNING Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: textcomp once more Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 21:15:38 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: textcomp once more Thread-Index: AcMSeTBIevYjtZpGSbq7NIkFJ3BNfA== From: "Donald Arseneau" To: "Frank Mittelbach" Cc: "Walter Schmidt" , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lars_Hellstr=F7m?= , Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4612 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C31279.2FDF1E00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Frank Mittelbach writes: > Walter Schmidt writes: > > >the default should be 5 so that using textcomp is safe by default. = > >=20 > > In this case, lots of existing documents which are loading > > textcomp.sty without an option and generate _correct_ output > > nowadays, will generate errors or even wrong symbols (i.e. > > faked symbols, or symbols from the wrong typeface, depending > > on the implementation). =20 >=20 > i honnestly would like to know who the users are that have these "many > documents", you perhaps? I presume all the people who have ps fonts with euro character added. > the overwhelming majority of LaTeX users will not have fonts that = would have > characters accessible that are now producing an error:=20 But current documents where no error is produced -- neither error=20 message nor bad output -- would start giving bogus error messages. It seems very counterintuitive to me that the default "subset level" would not be the full declared character encoding. > > This anything else than "safe", and > > it clashes with ther current policy of strict compatibility. >=20 > it does in my opinion since there is nothing that does not allow to = reproduce > the same "rubbish" or the same excat result as before. the only thing = is that > the user may have to follow the instruction given on the error = message. I don't get this. I thought Frank and Walter might be using different meanings of 1-5, but previous messages do seem to indicate Frank wants the minimal subset to be the default. > yes. the majority is not those on ctt that usualy never bother to read = any > documentation My experience is the opposite. The majority is less clueful than even the newbies on ctt. I'm not really following this discussion very well. I guess the point is what to do with psnfss installations that pre-date this feature. Then it could be better to assume the worst. Donald Arseneau asnd@triumf.ca ------_=_NextPart_001_01C31279.2FDF1E00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: textcomp once more

Frank Mittelbach = <frank.mittelbach@latex-project.org> writes:

> Walter Schmidt writes:
>  > >the default should be 5 so that = using textcomp is safe by default.
>  >
>  > In this case, lots of existing = documents which are loading
>  > textcomp.sty without an option and = generate _correct_ output
>  > nowadays, will generate errors or = even wrong symbols (i.e.
>  > faked symbols, or symbols from the = wrong typeface, depending
>  > on the implementation). 
>
> i honnestly would like to know who the users are = that have these "many
> documents", you perhaps?

I presume all the people who have ps fonts with euro = character added.

> the overwhelming majority of LaTeX users will not = have fonts that would have
> characters accessible that are now producing an = error:

But current documents where no error is produced -- = neither error
message nor bad output -- would start giving bogus = error messages.
It seems very counterintuitive to me that the default = "subset
level" would not be the full declared character = encoding.

>  > This anything else than = "safe", and
>  > it clashes with ther current policy = of strict compatibility.
>
> it does in my opinion since there is nothing = that does not allow to reproduce
> the same "rubbish" or the same excat = result as before. the only thing is that
> the user may have to follow the instruction = given on the error message.

I don't get this.  I thought Frank and Walter = might be using different
meanings of 1-5, but previous messages do seem to = indicate Frank wants
the minimal subset to be the default.

> yes. the majority is not those on ctt that usualy = never bother to read any
> documentation

My experience is the opposite.  The majority is = less clueful than even
the newbies on ctt.

I'm not really following this discussion very = well.  I guess the point
is what to do with psnfss installations that pre-date = this feature.
Then it could be better to assume the worst.

Donald = Arseneau           = ;            =    asnd@triumf.ca

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