Received: from mail.proteosys.com ([62.225.9.49]) by nummer-3.proteosys with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:28:20 +0100 Received: by mail.proteosys.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h0VBSH6C009205 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:28:18 +0100 Received: from listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.27]) by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h0VB75tt004725; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:07:05 +0100 (MET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C2C91B.DB47A200" Received: from listserv (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.27]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.2/8.12.2/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id h0V3OfKx009148; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:59:20 +0100 Received: from LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 7438 for LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:59:20 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de (relay.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.212]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.2/8.12.2/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id h0VAnK5f013197 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:49:20 +0100 Received: from mailout03.sul.t-online.com (mailout03.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.81]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h0VAuqXM023743 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:56:52 +0100 (MET) Received: from fwd03.sul.t-online.de by mailout03.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 18eYqq-0000bN-09; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:56:52 +0100 Received: from localhost.localdomain (520018396234-0001@[62.158.219.200]) by fmrl03.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 18eYqc-09RA4eC; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:56:38 +0100 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0VAu7ti005649 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:56:35 +0100 Received: (from dak@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h0V9NAjE004952; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:23:10 +0100 In-Reply-To: <000501c2c8f7$4aa72320$657ba8c0@DOMINUS> Lines: 46 References: <000501c2c8f7$4aa72320$657ba8c0@DOMINUS> Return-Path: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jan 2003 11:28:20.0359 (UTC) FILETIME=[DB7E6970:01C2C91B] X-Sender: 520018396234-0001@t-dialin.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3.50 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.28 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) X-Spam-Score: -2.8 () IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: ltxgrid? Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:23:10 +0100 Message-ID: A X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Re: ltxgrid? Thread-Index: AcLJG9uh5m14CV43TTeO0JPFHGrSLw== From: "David Kastrup" To: Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4509 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2C91B.DB47A200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ulrich Dirr writes: > >>>> It is probably not a bad idea to skim for some ideas... although > >>>> you probably have done so already. > >>> > >>> yes, but not very thoroughly back in 2000 and since then xor got = to > >>> a sudden hold for private reasons. so it is certainly worthwise to > >>> redo that exercise > >> > >> Yes, please. Something like xor with grid layout possibilities = which > >> will work before LaTeX3 would be great. > > > > Grin. Names may be misleading. IIRC, xor can already do > > typesetting on a grid (with the appropriate number of bugs), > > and ltxgrid has no provision for it. > > I know that in xor there's a possiblity for typesetting on a grid (and > even make it visible). It's called xor-grid. I've looked at the = packages > in the experimental area but didn't succeed to get them working with > other LaTeX packages (which are based on LaTeX2e). And this was my > intention when I wrote 'before LaTeX3' ... LaTeX3 will have quite a few existing packages break. One major cause of this is the inavailability of flexible interfaces to quite a few internals of LaTeX2e: for that reason, mnay LaTeX2e packages rely on redefining or using internals not intended as a proper interface. As a result, there are even known incompatibilites between basic required LaTeX packages (longtable and multicol, for example). There might be some phase in the development for LaTeX3 where one is concerned about some stuff for increasing compatibility to older versions. But now is not yet the time for thinking about that, in my opinion. If LaTeX3 is to become a reality, one should not spend too much effort on thinking about LaTeX4 (postpone everything until a magic executable appears that makes everything simpler) or LaTeX2e (bend over backwards for backward compatibility with old engines and implementations before even having started something new). We need solid progress in areas where the ground is sufficiently established. From there it will be possible to look where to go next. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2C91B.DB47A200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: ltxgrid?

        Ulrich Dirr = <ud@ART-SATZ.DE> writes:

> >>>> It is probably not a bad idea to = skim for some ideas... although
> >>>> you probably have done so = already.
> >>>
> >>> yes, but not very thoroughly back = in 2000 and since then xor got to
> >>> a sudden hold for private reasons. = so it is certainly worthwise to
> >>> redo that exercise
> >>
> >> Yes, please. Something like xor with = grid layout possibilities which
> >> will work before LaTeX3 would be = great.
> >
> > Grin.  Names may be misleading.  = IIRC, xor can already do
> > typesetting on a grid (with the appropriate = number of bugs),
> > and ltxgrid has no provision for it.
>
> I know that in xor there's a possiblity for = typesetting on a grid (and
> even make it visible). It's called xor-grid. = I've looked at the packages
> in the experimental area but didn't succeed to = get them working with
> other LaTeX packages (which are based on = LaTeX2e). And this was my
> intention when I wrote 'before LaTeX3' = ...

LaTeX3 will have quite a few existing packages = break.  One major
cause of this is the inavailability of flexible = interfaces to quite a
few internals of LaTeX2e: for that reason, mnay = LaTeX2e packages rely
on redefining or using internals not intended as a = proper interface.

As a result, there are even known incompatibilites = between basic
required LaTeX packages (longtable and multicol, for = example).

There might be some phase in the development for = LaTeX3 where one is
concerned about some stuff for increasing = compatibility to older
versions.  But now is not yet the time for = thinking about that, in my
opinion.

If LaTeX3 is to become a reality, one should not spend = too much
effort on thinking about LaTeX4 (postpone everything = until a magic
executable appears that makes everything simpler) or = LaTeX2e (bend
over backwards for backward compatibility with old = engines and
implementations before even having started something = new).

We need solid progress in areas where the ground is = sufficiently
established.  From there it will be possible to = look where to go next.

--
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

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