Received: from mail.proteosys.com ([62.225.9.49]) by nummer-3.proteosys with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 23:15:45 +0100 Received: by mail.proteosys.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h0NMFg6C014431 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 23:15:43 +0100 Received: from listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.27]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h0NM8mXM019035; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 23:08:48 +0100 (MET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C2C32C.F9663E80" Received: from listserv (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.27]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.2/8.12.2/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id h0MN04fX000617; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 23:01:34 +0100 Received: from LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 8590 for LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 23:01:34 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de (relay.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.212]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.2/8.12.2/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id h0NLpX5f011581 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:51:33 +0100 Received: from mailout07.sul.t-online.com (mailout07.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.83]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h0NLwkXM017329 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:58:46 +0100 (MET) Received: from fwd06.sul.t-online.de by mailout07.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 18bpMz-0004D7-02; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:58:45 +0100 Received: from localhost.localdomain (520018396234-0001@[62.226.11.135]) by fmrl06.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 18bpMj-0KKWBsC; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:58:29 +0100 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0NLwRjI009320 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:58:28 +0100 Received: (from dak@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h0NLwRur009316; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:58:27 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200301232130.53333.tim@birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie> Lines: 31 References: <15915.60496.798501.907773@lin2.idris.fr> <200301231843.18419.tim@birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie> <200301232130.53333.tim@birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie> Return-Path: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jan 2003 22:15:45.0395 (UTC) FILETIME=[F9A28430:01C2C32C] X-Sender: 520018396234-0001@t-dialin.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3.50 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.28 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) X-Spam-Score: -2 () IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_05_08,USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: LICR objects in math Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:58:26 +0100 Message-ID: A X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Re: LICR objects in math Thread-Index: AcLDLPnbenDzqhrfT9K+sw4rrTNSzw== From: "David Kastrup" To: Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4481 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2C32C.F9663E80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Timothy Murphy writes: > I still think that if you want to persuade people like me of the > virtues of eTeX you need to descend to our level, and show actual > advantages in real LaTeX programs (including packages) which we can > appreciate. To put it bluntly: why would I need to persuade people like you? The question of the right tool for the right job needs to get decided by the people _doing_ the job. I am merely telling those guys that they should think about some plan to eventually stop shooting themselves in the foot more than necessary for the imagined sake of people like you that say "what has been good enough for Knuth is good enough for us." Fine, but then you should be using plain TeX. I presume that your decision stems from the perceived buglessness of TeX. So what? LaTeX contains hundreds of bugs that are triggered not infrequently. If a new engine has 10 bugs not hitherto discovered, and it will help simplify LaTeX programming to a degree that several dozens of bugs don't come into being in the first place, the sane choice is to go with fewer bugs. LaTeX has outgrown TeX painfully already. It will also outgrow eTeX, but if your children outgrow their shoes, you don't wait until you expect their feet to never grow anymore before you buy new shoes. > It's not enough to say that there are a few people living on top of > Mount Everest whose lives would be greatly simplified. Unless those people are working for you. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2C32C.F9663E80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: LICR objects in math

        Timothy = Murphy <tim@BIRDSNEST.MATHS.TCD.IE> writes:

> I still think that if you want to persuade people = like me of the
> virtues of eTeX you need to descend to our = level, and show actual
> advantages in real LaTeX programs (including = packages) which we can
> appreciate.

To put it bluntly: why would I need to persuade people = like you? The
question of the right tool for the right job needs to = get decided by
the people _doing_ the job.  I am merely telling = those guys that they
should think about some plan to eventually stop = shooting themselves in
the foot more than necessary for the imagined sake of = people like you
that say "what has been good enough for Knuth is = good enough for us."
Fine, but then you should be using plain TeX.  I = presume that your
decision stems from the perceived buglessness of = TeX.  So what?  LaTeX
contains hundreds of bugs that are triggered not = infrequently.  If a
new engine has 10 bugs not hitherto discovered, and = it will help
simplify LaTeX programming to a degree that several = dozens of bugs
don't come into being in the first place, the sane = choice is to go
with fewer bugs.  LaTeX has outgrown TeX = painfully already.  It will
also outgrow eTeX, but if your children outgrow their = shoes, you
don't wait until you expect their feet to never grow = anymore before
you buy new shoes.

> It's not enough to say that there are a few = people living on top of
> Mount Everest whose lives would be greatly = simplified.

Unless those people are working for you.

--
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

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