Received: from mail.proteosys.com ([62.225.9.49]) by nummer-3.proteosys with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 16:12:59 +0100 Received: by mail.proteosys.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h0MFCu6C009009 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 16:12:58 +0100 Received: from listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.27]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h0MExXVw002441; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:59:33 +0100 (MET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C2C228.BFAC0F80" Received: from listserv (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.27]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.2/8.12.2/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id h0MEKD8P028309; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:52:22 +0100 Received: from LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 7952 for LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:52:22 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (relay2.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.210.211]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.2/8.12.2/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id h0MEqM5f028930 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:52:22 +0100 Received: from abel.math.umu.se (abel.math.umu.se [130.239.20.139]) by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h0MExVtt005421 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:59:31 +0100 (MET) Received: from [130.239.20.144] (mac144.math.umu.se [130.239.20.144]) by abel.math.umu.se (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA10721 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:55:19 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: References: <15918.32649.326340.239302@istrati.mittelbach-online.de> <15915.60496.798501.907773@lin2.idris.fr> <15915.64379.146524.772099@istrati.mittelbach-online.de> <15916.8635.946195.989212@istrati.mittelbach-online.de> <15916.14608.340151.43815@istrati.mittelbach-online.de> <15917.9945.473122.219613@istrati.mittelbach-online.de> <15918.32649.326340.239302@istrati.mittelbach-online.de> Return-Path: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jan 2003 15:12:59.0864 (UTC) FILETIME=[C02FE580:01C2C228] X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se x-mime-autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de id h0MEqM5f028931 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.28 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) X-Spam-Score: -0.2 () IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: LICR objects in math Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 16:00:21 +0100 Message-ID: A X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Re: LICR objects in math Thread-Index: AcLCKMBJrrT7nwGsS1efTNK8ZXNd/A== From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lars_Hellstr=F6m?= To: Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4471 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2C228.BFAC0F80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 12.58 +0100 2003-01-22, David Kastrup wrote: >Yes. You guys crack me up. The inputenc package is a vital part of >LaTeX. If it does not work well without eTeX and complains about this >with an appropriate warning, that means that non-eTeX-2 should >officially be declared deprecated with due warning time. > >My original proposal of doing such a declaration for the next LaTeX >release was violently opposed. An important difference between the suggestions is that you suggested = that LaTeX should have a built-in uselessness (that prevented running it on non-e-TeX): you want to remove functionality. Certainly not before 2004, but nonetheless uselessness. What Frank suggests is rather to point out that an existing bug does go away if one uses e-TeX; this effectively = adds functionality. Having inputenc always scream about it is probably to = overdo it, but Frank seem to have in mind that enabling LICR objects for math should be done using a separate package inpmath. If one wants to convince people to use eTeX instead of TeX then I think = a carrot is better than a whip. Whipping tends to make people want to run away. Lars Hellstr=F6m ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2C228.BFAC0F80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: LICR objects in math

At 12.58 +0100 2003-01-22, David Kastrup wrote:
>Yes.  You guys crack me up.  The = inputenc package is a vital part of
>LaTeX.  If it does not work well without = eTeX and complains about this
>with an appropriate warning, that means that = non-eTeX-2 should
>officially be declared deprecated with due = warning time.
>
>My original proposal of doing such a declaration = for the next LaTeX
>release was violently opposed.

An important difference between the suggestions is = that you suggested that
LaTeX should have a built-in uselessness (that = prevented running it on
non-e-TeX): you want to remove functionality. = Certainly not before 2004,
but nonetheless uselessness. What Frank suggests is = rather to point out
that an existing bug does go away if one uses e-TeX; = this effectively adds
functionality. Having inputenc always scream about it = is probably to overdo
it, but Frank seem to have in mind that enabling LICR = objects for math
should be done using a separate package = inpmath.

If one wants to convince people to use eTeX instead of = TeX then I think a
carrot is better than a whip. Whipping tends to make = people want to run
away.

Lars Hellstr=F6m

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