Received: from mail.proteosys.com ([62.225.9.49]) by nummer-3.proteosys with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4905); Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:29:09 +0200 Received: by mail.proteosys.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g6LJSpWi004754 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:28:52 +0200 Received: from listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.27]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g6LJF2WK024483; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:15:03 +0200 (MET DST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C230EC.E27C3080" Received: from listserv (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.27]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.2/8.12.2/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id g6LDMqxJ004068; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:15:22 +0200 Received: from LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 4644 for LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:15:22 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (relay2.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.210.211]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.2/8.12.2/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id g6LJFMuV005353 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:15:22 +0200 Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.176]) by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g6LJEWT8008157 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:14:32 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from [212.227.126.160] (helo=mrelayng0.kundenserver.de) by moutng2.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #2) id 17WMA0-0000CP-00; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:14:28 +0200 Received: from [80.129.4.130] (helo=istrati.mittelbach-online.de) by mrelayng0.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #2) id 17WM9z-0005X6-00; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:14:28 +0200 Received: (from frank@localhost) by istrati.mittelbach-online.de (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) id g6LJDAo29202; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:13:10 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87y9c53p3c.fsf@becket.becket.net> References: <200207162352.g6GNq9Ow031038@bilbo.localnet> <878z46p1yi.fsf@becket.becket.net> <15673.62597.185188.389384@istrati.mittelbach-online.de> <87k7nqrkzw.fsf@becket.becket.net> <15674.26810.972993.851151@istrati.mittelbach-online.de> <87y9c53p3c.fsf@becket.becket.net> Return-Path: X-Mailer: VM 6.96 under Emacs 20.7.1 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Jul 2002 19:29:09.0986 (UTC) FILETIME=[E312A420:01C230EC] X-Authentication-Warning: istrati.mittelbach-online.de: frank set sender to frank@mittelbach-online.de using -f X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.6 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: what is allowed with TeX and CM fonts (was Re: User's thoughts about LPPL) Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 20:13:10 +0100 Message-ID: A<15675.1990.33938.30321@istrati.mittelbach-online.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: what is allowed with TeX and CM fonts (was Re: User's thoughts about LPPL) Thread-Index: AcIw7OM6E1JoLbeYTbinHZuTmqVaCQ== From: "Frank Mittelbach" To: Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4339 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C230EC.E27C3080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thomas Bushnell, BSG writes: > Frank Mittelbach writes: > > > i think so yes, for example, Don's home page > > other may be able to refer you to more explicit quotes. > > Knuth's home page is large. Do you have a specific reference? sorry, seems i have thrown you a red herring myself. His intentions seem = to be only briefly touched at on his home page (the reference to TeX gets = absolutely frozen upon his death is there but not much more) i took the effort (though i think this is a different discussion = therefore finally changed the subject) to try and pin down some references. best i = was able to do is @Article{Knuth:TB11-4-489, author =3D "Donald E. Knuth", title =3D "{The future of {\TeX} and {\MF}}", journal =3D j-TUGboat, volume =3D "11", number =3D "4", pages =3D "489--489", month =3D nov, year =3D "1990", ISSN =3D "0896-3207", bibdate =3D "Wed Jul 18 18:33:43 MDT 2001", bibsource =3D "ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/tugboat.bib; = http://www.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/index-table-t.html#tugboat", acknowledgement =3D ack-bnb # " and " # ack-nhfb, } in there he say (beside other things): As stated on the copyright pages of Volumes B, D, and E, anybody can = make use of my programs in whatever way they wish as long as they do not use the = names TeX, METAFONT, or Computer Modern. The copyright page of volume B then says: The progam for TeX is in the public domain and readers may freely = incorporate the algorithms of this book into their own programs. However, the use = of the name TeX is restricted to software systems that agree exactly with the = program presented here. that seems to me more than trip test complience. while I'm at it, the copyright page for volume E is similar and states = that any font named cmr10 (and so on) has to be fully compatible with the one produced from the programs in the book. Now i'm not saything this is legally inforcable the way he said it (i = have no idea), for TeX there is a trademark, though for Computer Modern there is probably none (definitely not for the 72 individual font names. = Nevertheless Debian wouldn't get a good press if it would generate modified versions = of such programs and fonts and distributed them under the original names. frank ------_=_NextPart_001_01C230EC.E27C3080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable what is allowed with TeX and CM fonts (was Re: User's = thoughts about LPPL)

Thomas Bushnell, BSG writes:
 > Frank Mittelbach = <frank.mittelbach@latex-project.org> writes:
 >
 > > i think so yes, for example, Don's = home page
 > > other may be able to refer you to = more explicit quotes.
 >
 > Knuth's home page is large.  Do you = have a specific reference?

sorry, seems i have thrown you a red herring myself. = His intentions seem to be
only briefly touched at on his home page (the = reference to TeX gets absolutely
frozen upon his death is there but not much = more)

i took the effort (though i think this is a different = discussion therefore
finally changed the subject) to try and pin down some = references. best i was
able to do is


@Article{Knuth:TB11-4-489,
  author =3D       = "Donald E. Knuth",
  title = =3D        "{The future of = {\TeX} and {\MF}}",
  journal =3D      = j-TUGboat,
  volume =3D       = "11",
  number =3D       = "4",
  pages = =3D        = "489--489",
  month = =3D        nov,
  year = =3D         = "1990",
  ISSN = =3D         = "0896-3207",
  bibdate =3D      = "Wed Jul 18 18:33:43 MDT 2001",
  bibsource =3D    "ftp://ftp.math.= utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/tugboat.bib;
          &nbs= p;      = http://www.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/index-table-t.html#tugboat"= ,
  acknowledgement =3D ack-bnb # " and = " # ack-nhfb,
}

in there he say (beside other things):

As stated on the copyright pages of Volumes B, D, and = E, anybody can make use
of my programs in whatever way they wish as  = long as they do not use the names
TeX, METAFONT, or Computer Modern.

The copyright page of volume B then says:

 The progam for TeX is in the public domain and = readers may freely incorporate
 the algorithms of this book into their own = programs. However, the use of the
 name TeX is restricted to software systems that = agree exactly with the program
 presented here.

that seems to me more than trip test = complience.

while I'm at it, the copyright page for volume E is = similar and states that
any font named cmr10 (and so on) has to be fully = compatible with the one
produced from the programs in the book.

Now i'm not saything this is legally inforcable the = way he said it (i have no
idea), for TeX there is a trademark, though for = Computer Modern there is
probably none (definitely not for the 72 individual = font names. Nevertheless
Debian wouldn't get a good press if it would generate = modified versions of
such programs and fonts and distributed them under = the original names.


frank

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