Received: from mail.proteosys.com ([62.225.9.49]) by nummer-3.proteosys with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4905); Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:42:58 +0200 Received: by mail.proteosys.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g6I2gZWi025875 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:42:36 +0200 Received: from listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.27]) by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g6I2KBT8005091; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:20:11 +0200 (MET DST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C22E04.D3536500" Received: from listserv (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.27]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.2/8.12.2/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id g6HM04sw013931; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:21:10 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 4048 for LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:21:10 +0200 Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de (relay.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.212]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.2/8.12.2/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id g6I2LArU014744 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:21:10 +0200 Received: from bilbo.localnet (root@pcp742276pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net [68.49.144.202]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g6I2K9WK014216 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:20:09 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from bilbo.localnet (boris@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bilbo.localnet (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g6I2K7EC013589 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:20:07 -0400 Received: (from boris@localhost) by bilbo.localnet (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id g6I2K7qZ013585; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:20:07 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20020718023855.B4573@birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie> (message from Timothy Murphy on Thu, 18 Jul 2002 02:38:55 +0100) References: <15667.17322.923787.604569@istrati.mittelbach-online.de> <20020716094829.A3002@birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie> <20020716.135105.41626007.wlandry@ucsd.edu> <20020717022416.A3442@birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie> <20020717023521.GA14707@dodds.net> <20020717215542.B4362@birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie> <200207172124.g6HLO8YC010625@bilbo.localnet> <20020718023855.B4573@birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie> Return-Path: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jul 2002 02:42:58.0706 (UTC) FILETIME=[D3BF1F20:01C22E04] X-Authentication-Warning: bilbo.localnet: boris set sender to borisv@lk.net using -f X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.6 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: forwarded message from Jeff Licquia Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 03:20:07 +0100 Message-ID: A<200207180220.g6I2K7qZ013585@bilbo.localnet> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Re: forwarded message from Jeff Licquia Thread-Index: AcIuBNQKX8HB49hkSnGhqyyJCvs7fg== From: "Boris Veytsman" To: Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4324 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C22E04.D3536500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 02:38:55 +0100 > From: Timothy Murphy > > > 2. The state of TeX/LaTeX in Debian is high on the priority list for > > many LaTeX users I know, and very high for many system admins = that > > support LaTeX on their machines. > > I find this very hard to believe. > > I have read thousands of postings about LaTeX, > attended many TeX/LaTeX meetings, > and do not recall ever hearing or seeing the word Debian in that = context. > > (I just checked on dejanews, > and as far as I could see the only postings on comp.text.tex > with "Debian" in them concerned supposed bugs > in the Debian implementation of TeX.) Maybe this is exactly because Debian/LaTeX 'just works', and there are no Debian-specific bugs now? If you do not see newspaper articles about the quality of tap water, it does not mean that this quality is unmportant. It might mean that the waterways work fine. Right now there is nothing to tell about my Debian/LaTeX machines: they happily do what I want, and I never post anything about them in ctt or elsewhere. I am very much interested in keeping the situation exactly like this. > > > If Debian starts to change the standard, I > > will probably migrate to TeXLive again -- with all the problems this > > migration would cause. > > Tell us one such problem. Try to upgrade TeXLive to version 5 on, say, a dozen of different machines in differents locations (so NFS is out of the question). To make the situation more interesting, let some of the machines run TeXLive 4 and some TeXLive 3. About half of the machines use libc5, and half use libc6. All machines have different local settings, which you must preserve. Some machines are several hundred miles from you. There is no time for testing and QA. You have two hours to complete the task. Any minute above this costs $NNN to your customers. Then you might appreciate the Debian way: for machine in $MACHINES; do ssh root@$machine apt-get update ssh root@$machine apt-get upgrade --yes done -- Good luck -Boris I suggest a new strategy, Artoo: let the Wookie win. -- C3P0 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C22E04.D3536500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: forwarded message from Jeff Licquia

> = Date:         Thu, 18 Jul 2002 = 02:38:55 +0100
> From: Timothy Murphy = <tim@BIRDSNEST.MATHS.TCD.IE>


>
> > 2. The state of TeX/LaTeX in Debian is high = on the priority list for
> >    many LaTeX users I know, = and very high for many system admins that
> >    support LaTeX on their = machines.
>
> I find this very hard to believe.
>
> I have read thousands of postings about = LaTeX,
> attended many TeX/LaTeX meetings,
> and do not recall ever hearing or seeing the = word Debian in that context.
>
> (I just checked on dejanews,
> and as far as I could see the only postings on = comp.text.tex
> with "Debian" in them concerned = supposed bugs
> in the Debian implementation of TeX.)


Maybe this is exactly because Debian/LaTeX 'just = works', and there are
no Debian-specific bugs now? If you do not see = newspaper articles
about the quality of tap water, it does not mean that = this quality is
unmportant. It might mean that the waterways work = fine.

Right now there is nothing to tell about my = Debian/LaTeX machines:
they happily do what I want, and I never post = anything about them in
ctt or elsewhere. I am very much interested in = keeping the situation
exactly like this.


>
> > If Debian starts to change the standard, = I
> > will probably migrate to TeXLive again -- = with all the problems this
> > migration would cause.
>
> Tell us one such problem.


Try to upgrade TeXLive to version 5 on, say, a dozen = of different
machines in differents locations (so NFS is out of = the question). To
make the situation more interesting, let some of the = machines run
TeXLive 4 and some TeXLive 3. About half of the = machines use libc5,
and half use libc6. All machines have different local = settings, which
you must preserve. Some machines are several hundred = miles from
you. There is no time for testing and QA. You have = two hours to
complete the task. Any minute above this costs $NNN = to your customers.

Then you might appreciate the Debian way:

for machine in $MACHINES; do
   ssh root@$machine apt-get update
   ssh root@$machine apt-get upgrade = --yes
done

--
Good luck

-Boris

I suggest a new strategy, Artoo: let the Wookie = win.
          &nbs= p;     -- C3P0

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