Received: from mail.proteosys.com ([62.225.9.49]) by nummer-3.proteosys with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4905); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:52:33 +0200 Received: by mail.proteosys.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g6HLq9Wi025192 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:52:10 +0200 Received: from listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.27]) by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g6HLOBT8013609; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:24:11 +0200 (MET DST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C22DDC.41376680" Received: from listserv (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.27]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.2/8.12.2/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id g6GM04GA006287; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:25:11 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 8662 for LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:25:11 +0200 Received: from relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (relay2.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.210.211]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.2/8.12.2/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id g6HLPBrU013743 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:25:11 +0200 Received: from bilbo.localnet (root@pcp742276pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net [68.49.144.202]) by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g6HLO9T8013586 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:24:09 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from bilbo.localnet (boris@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bilbo.localnet (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g6HLO8EC010629 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:24:08 -0400 Received: (from boris@localhost) by bilbo.localnet (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id g6HLO8YC010625; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:24:08 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20020717215542.B4362@birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie> (message from Timothy Murphy on Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:55:42 +0100) References: <15667.17322.923787.604569@istrati.mittelbach-online.de> <20020716094829.A3002@birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie> <20020716.135105.41626007.wlandry@ucsd.edu> <20020717022416.A3442@birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie> <20020717023521.GA14707@dodds.net> <20020717215542.B4362@birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie> Return-Path: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jul 2002 21:52:33.0269 (UTC) FILETIME=[41607250:01C22DDC] X-Authentication-Warning: bilbo.localnet: boris set sender to borisv@lk.net using -f X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.6 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: forwarded message from Jeff Licquia Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:24:08 +0100 Message-ID: A<200207172124.g6HLO8YC010625@bilbo.localnet> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Re: forwarded message from Jeff Licquia Thread-Index: AcIt3EF9VlMt/opCSrqCmsM81Qciyg== From: "Boris Veytsman" To: Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4320 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C22DDC.41376680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:55:42 +0100 > From: Timothy Murphy > > (1) The intersection of those interested in LaTeX > and those seriously interested in Debian is almost empty, I imagine. > I would have said it was empty, > except that Frank Mittelbach seems to belong to both sets. > > (2) You (or someone else on the Debian "side") > asked for the "LaTeX community" to comment on the discussion. > I'm an ordinary LaTeX user, > but I'm pretty sure that I speak for 95% (if not 100%) of LaTeX users > when I say that satisfying the Debian licence > comes very low indeed in my order of priorities. > I completely disagree with these points. 1. I know many LaTeX users. Debian is a distribution of choice for many of them. 2. The state of TeX/LaTeX in Debian is high on the priority list for many LaTeX users I know, and very high for many system admins that support LaTeX on their machines. I have several machines with LaTeX and Debian that I support. LaTeX there is used for everyday work, automatic production of reports from databases and other tasks. It is an important part of the system -- for some machine it is the reason of their employment. The fact that I can easily maintain the systems by simple apt-get update/apt-get upgrade is important for me. I remember too well the bad old times where I ought to update the texmf tree manually. This ease of maintaining made me migrate from TeXLive TeX to Debian standard packages. I do not want to lose it. If Debian will declare TeX suite (and this is not just about LaTeX -- this is about the core Knuthian system) non-DFSG and decrease or drop support for it, it would make the life much harder for me. Having said this, I need to note that the integrity of my (La)TeX distribution on the production systems is higher in my priority list than ease of maintaining. If Debian starts to change the standard, I will probably migrate to TeXLive again -- with all the problems this migration would cause. -- Good luck -Boris I am returning this otherwise good typing paper to you because someone has printed gibberish all over it and put your name at the top. -- Professor Lowd, English, Ohio University ------_=_NextPart_001_01C22DDC.41376680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: forwarded message from Jeff Licquia

> Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:55:42 +0100
> From: Timothy Murphy = <tim@birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie>

>
> (1) The intersection of those interested in = LaTeX
> and those seriously interested in Debian is = almost empty, I imagine.
> I would have said it was empty,
> except that Frank Mittelbach seems to belong to = both sets.
>
> (2) You (or someone else on the Debian = "side")
> asked for the "LaTeX community" to = comment on the discussion.
> I'm an ordinary LaTeX user,
> but I'm pretty sure that I speak for 95% (if not = 100%) of LaTeX users
> when I say that satisfying the Debian = licence
> comes very low indeed in my order of = priorities.
>


I completely disagree with these points.

1. I know many LaTeX users. Debian is a distribution = of choice for
   many of them.

2. The state of TeX/LaTeX in Debian is high on the = priority list for
   many LaTeX users I know, and very high = for many system admins that
   support LaTeX on their machines.

I have several machines with LaTeX and Debian that I = support. LaTeX
there is used for everyday work, automatic production = of reports from
databases and other tasks. It is an important part of = the system --
for some machine it is the reason of their = employment. The fact that I
can easily maintain the systems by simple apt-get = update/apt-get
upgrade is important for me. I remember too well the = bad old times
where I ought to update the texmf tree manually. This = ease of
maintaining made me migrate from TeXLive TeX to = Debian standard
packages. I do not want to lose it.

If Debian will declare TeX suite (and this is not just = about LaTeX --
this is about the core Knuthian system) non-DFSG and = decrease or drop
support for it, it would make the life much harder = for me.

Having said this, I need to note that the integrity of = my (La)TeX
distribution on the production systems is higher in = my priority list
than ease of maintaining. If Debian starts to change = the standard, I
will probably migrate to TeXLive again -- with all = the problems this
migration would cause.

--
Good luck

-Boris

I am returning this otherwise good typing paper to you = because someone
has printed gibberish all over it and put your name = at the top.
          &nbs= p;     -- Professor Lowd, English, Ohio = University

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