Received: from mail.proteosys.com ([62.225.9.49]) by nummer-3.proteosys with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4905); Tue, 25 Jun 2002 19:57:40 +0200 Received: by mail.proteosys.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g5PHvCxC002661 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 19:57:13 +0200 Received: from listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.27]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g5PHeVWK004340; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 19:40:31 +0200 (MET DST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C21C71.CC0BC200" Received: from listserv (listserv.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.27]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.2/8.12.2/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id g5OM03qO004555; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 19:41:43 +0200 Received: from LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 3223 for LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 19:41:43 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de (relay.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.212]) by listserv.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.2/8.12.2/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id g5PHfhaE011303 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 19:41:43 +0200 Received: from moutng1.kundenserver.de (moutng1.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.171]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g5PHdjWK004206 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 19:39:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from [212.227.126.162] (helo=mrelayng1.schlund.de) by moutng1.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 17MuI4-00059Z-00 for LATEX-L@listserv.uni-heidelberg.de; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 19:39:44 +0200 Received: from [80.129.6.183] (helo=istrati.mittelbach-online.de) by mrelayng1.schlund.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17MuI3-00040C-00 for LATEX-L@listserv.uni-heidelberg.de; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 19:39:44 +0200 Received: (from frank@localhost) by istrati.mittelbach-online.de (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) id g5PHdf101304; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 19:39:41 +0200 In-Reply-To: <3D17F428.20702@toshiba.co.jp> References: <3.0.6.32.20020621144417.007b3100@mail.uark.edu> <15639.26375.782098.164234@istrati.mittelbach-online.de> <3D17F428.20702@toshiba.co.jp> Return-Path: X-Mailer: VM 6.96 under Emacs 20.7.1 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jun 2002 17:57:40.0312 (UTC) FILETIME=[CC3B5D80:01C21C71] X-Authentication-Warning: istrati.mittelbach-online.de: frank set sender to frank@mittelbach-online.de using -f X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.6 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Suggested changes to LPPL Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 18:39:41 +0100 Message-ID: A<15640.43741.596149.994860@istrati.mittelbach-online.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Suggested changes to LPPL Thread-Index: AcIcccx72ZiTX2mwQgGCygtjRFvozA== From: "Frank Mittelbach" To: Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4207 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C21C71.CC0BC200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The LaTeX Project Public License is now in existence for some time and = within the TeX community widely accepted (or so is my impression), given the = fact that most packages these days are distributed under this license. There are however voices (mostly in the debian community it seems) that consider LPPL as "unfree" or at least a strange beast. It is in fact true that LPPL is perhaps unnecessarily complicated in = parts, but when it was written we faced the following problem, for which we = didn't at the time find a good solution: - most latex software is distributed as source, eg .dtx + .ins files = with the really important file, ie the .sty file being only implicitly part of = the distribution. - therefore the .ins files usually write a copyright notice about LPPL = into the generated files. - on the other hand it is not difficult at all to write your own = version of of an .ins file (allowed if it has its own name) and this way = generate .sty files with a different copyright. To prevent this the license contains a (in my opinion) questionable = statement: You may not modify in any way a file of The Program that bears a legal notice forbidding modification of that file. So far, all people actually using the license have understand its = intention and how to interpret that statement together with the rest of the = license, but of course it is something that, if taken alone, would be clearly = questionable and in any case is an inferior way to go after the license goal, i.e., = to ensure that different sites can rely on exchangeability of documents, = while nevertheless to preserve the freedom to use the material "freely". just recently i had another set of discussions of that type, and even = though (as in the past) nobody really came up with explicit faults or = constructive comments (unfortunately), I decided to tackle at least the shortcoming = of the part of the license that i personally feel is questionable. +------------------------------------------------------------------------= -----+ |If there is anybody who knows about arguments that where never = communicated | |to the LaTeX Project Team (which essentially any comment) on = shortcomings in | |the license, or reasons why people think it is no an open source = license, | |please communicate them to us on this list --- or to me directly = | +------------------------------------------------------------------------= -----+ Our intention is and was to make the LPPL serve the community --- the = reasons why we think it is a good license are discussed in "modeguide.tex" in = the latex distribution. Anyway, as i said i have made a stab at changing the license from 1.2 to version 1.3 and would like to invite comments on that as well best frank Index: lppl.txt =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D RCS file: /latex-project/cvs/latex2e/base/lppl.txt,v retrieving revision 7.1 diff -c -r7.1 lppl.txt *** lppl.txt 2001/09/19 21:00:29 7.1 --- lppl.txt 2002/06/25 17:14:20 *************** *** 2,10 **** The LaTeX Project Public License =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- ! LPPL Version 1.2 1999-09-03 ! Copyright 1999 LaTeX3 Project Everyone is allowed to distribute verbatim copies of this license document, but modification of it is not allowed. --- 2,10 ---- The LaTeX Project Public License =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- ! LPPL Version 1.3 2002-06-12 ! Copyright 1999,2002 LaTeX3 Project Everyone is allowed to distribute verbatim copies of this license document, but modification of it is not allowed. *************** *** 55,63 **** You may distribute a complete, unmodified copy of The Program. Distribution of only part of The Program is not allowed. - You may not modify in any way a file of The Program that bears a legal - notice forbidding modification of that file. - You may distribute a modified file of The Program if, and only if, the following eight conditions are met: --- 55,60 ---- *************** *** 122,127 **** --- 119,130 ---- conventions of the target file systems) is considered to be a modification of the file. + If The Program is distributed in a packed form with a number of files + to be generated by some unpacking method from the distributed files, + then these derived files are logically (even if not physically + present) part of The Program and are covered by this license + independently of the method of their generation. + The distribution conditions in this license do not have to be applied to files that have been modified in accordance with the above conditions. Note, however, that Condition 7. does apply to *************** *** 262,279 **** %% Copyright 2001 M. Y. Name % % This program may be distributed and/or modified under the ! % conditions of the LaTeX Project Public License, either version 1.2 % of this license or (at your option) any later version. % The latest version of this license is in % http://www.latex-project.org/lppl.txt ! % and version 1.2 or later is part of all distributions of LaTeX ! % version 1999/12/01 or later. % % This program consists of the files pig.dtx and pig.ins Given such a notice and statement in a file, the conditions given in this license document would apply, with `The Program' referring to the ! two files `pig.dtx' and `pig.ins', and `The Copyright Holder' = referring to the person `M. Y. Name'. --- 265,284 ---- %% Copyright 2001 M. Y. Name % % This program may be distributed and/or modified under the ! % conditions of the LaTeX Project Public License, either version 1.3 % of this license or (at your option) any later version. % The latest version of this license is in % http://www.latex-project.org/lppl.txt ! % and version 1.3 or later is part of all distributions of LaTeX ! % version 2002/06/01 or later. % % This program consists of the files pig.dtx and pig.ins + % and the derived file pig.sty Given such a notice and statement in a file, the conditions given in this license document would apply, with `The Program' referring to the ! two files `pig.dtx', `pig.ins', and `pig.sty' (generateable from ! `pig.dtx' using `pig.ins'), and `The Copyright Holder' referring to the person `M. Y. Name'. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C21C71.CC0BC200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Suggested changes to LPPL

The LaTeX Project Public License is now in existence = for some time and within
the TeX community widely accepted (or so is my = impression), given the fact
that most packages these days are distributed under = this license.

There are however voices (mostly in the debian = community it seems) that
consider LPPL as "unfree" or at least a = strange beast.

It is in fact true that LPPL is perhaps unnecessarily = complicated in parts,
but when it was written we faced the following = problem, for which we didn't at
the time find a good solution:

 - most latex software is distributed as source, = eg .dtx + .ins files with the
   really important file, ie the .sty file = being only implicitly part of the
   distribution.

 - therefore the .ins files usually write a = copyright notice about LPPL into
   the generated files.

 - on the other hand it is not difficult at all = to write your own version of
   of an .ins file (allowed if it has its = own name) and this way generate .sty
   files with a different copyright.

To prevent this the license contains a (in my opinion) = questionable statement:

 You may not modify in any way a file of The = Program that bears a legal
 notice forbidding modification of that = file.

So far, all people actually using the license have = understand its intention
and how to interpret that statement together with the = rest of the license, but
of course it is something that, if taken alone, would = be clearly questionable
and in any case is an inferior way to go after the = license goal, i.e., to
ensure that different sites can rely on = exchangeability of documents, while
nevertheless to preserve the freedom to use the = material "freely".

just recently i had another set of discussions of that = type, and even though
(as in the past) nobody really came up with explicit = faults or constructive
comments (unfortunately), I decided to tackle at = least the shortcoming of the
part of the license that i personally feel is = questionable.

+---------------------------------------------------------------= --------------+
|If there is anybody who knows about arguments that = where never communicated  |
|to the LaTeX Project Team (which essentially any = comment) on shortcomings in |
|the license, or reasons why people think it is no an = open source license,    |
|please communicate them to us on this list  --- = or to me = directly           = ; |
+---------------------------------------------------------------= --------------+

Our intention is and was to make the LPPL serve the = community --- the reasons
why we think it is a good license are discussed in = "modeguide.tex" in the
latex distribution.


Anyway, as i said i have made a stab at changing the = license from 1.2 to
version 1.3 and would like to invite comments on that = as well

best
frank


Index: lppl.txt
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
RCS file: = /latex-project/cvs/latex2e/base/lppl.txt,v
retrieving revision 7.1
diff -c -r7.1 lppl.txt
*** lppl.txt    2001/09/19 = 21:00:29     7.1
--- lppl.txt    2002/06/25 = 17:14:20
***************
*** 2,10 ****
  The LaTeX Project Public License
  = =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-

! LPPL Version 1.2  1999-09-03

! Copyright 1999 LaTeX3 Project
      Everyone is allowed to = distribute verbatim copies of this
      license document, but = modification of it is not allowed.

--- 2,10 ----
  The LaTeX Project Public License
  = =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-

! LPPL Version 1.3  2002-06-12

! Copyright 1999,2002 LaTeX3 Project
      Everyone is allowed to = distribute verbatim copies of this
      license document, but = modification of it is not allowed.

***************
*** 55,63 ****
  You may distribute a complete, unmodified copy = of The Program.
  Distribution of only part of The Program is = not allowed.

- You may not modify in any way a file of The Program = that bears a legal
- notice forbidding modification of that file.
-
  You may distribute a modified file of The = Program if, and only if, the
  following eight conditions are met:

--- 55,60 ----
***************
*** 122,127 ****
--- 119,130 ----
  conventions of the target file systems) is = considered to be a
  modification of the file.

+ If The Program is distributed in a packed form with = a number of files
+ to be generated by some unpacking method from the = distributed files,
+ then these derived files are logically (even if not = physically
+ present) part of The Program and are covered by = this license
+ independently of the method of their = generation.
+
  The distribution conditions in this license do = not have to be
  applied to files that have been modified in = accordance with the
  above conditions.  Note, however, that = Condition 7. does apply to
***************
*** 262,279 ****
    %% Copyright 2001 M. Y. = Name
    %
    % This program may be distributed = and/or modified under the
!   % conditions of the LaTeX Project = Public License, either version 1.2
    % of this license or (at your = option) any later version.
    % The latest version of this = license is in
    %   http://www.latex-project.o= rg/lppl.txt
!   % and version 1.2 or later is part of = all distributions of LaTeX
!   % version 1999/12/01 or later.
    %
    % This program consists of the = files pig.dtx and pig.ins

  Given such a notice and statement in a file, = the conditions given in
  this license document would apply, with `The = Program' referring to the
! two files `pig.dtx' and `pig.ins', and `The = Copyright Holder' referring
  to the person `M. Y. Name'.


--- 265,284 ----
    %% Copyright 2001 M. Y. = Name
    %
    % This program may be distributed = and/or modified under the
!   % conditions of the LaTeX Project = Public License, either version 1.3
    % of this license or (at your = option) any later version.
    % The latest version of this = license is in
    %   http://www.latex-project.o= rg/lppl.txt
!   % and version 1.3 or later is part of = all distributions of LaTeX
!   % version 2002/06/01 or later.
    %
    % This program consists of the = files pig.dtx and pig.ins
+   % and the derived file pig.sty

  Given such a notice and statement in a file, = the conditions given in
  this license document would apply, with `The = Program' referring to the
! two files `pig.dtx', `pig.ins', and `pig.sty' = (generateable from
! `pig.dtx' using `pig.ins'), and `The Copyright = Holder' referring
  to the person `M. Y. Name'.

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