Received: from webgate.proteosys.de (mail.proteosys-ag.com [62.225.9.49]) by lucy.proteosys (8.11.0/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) with ESMTP id f38M92429925 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 00:09:02 +0200 Received: by webgate.proteosys.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f38M92H22186 . for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 00:09:02 +0200 Received: from mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailserver1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.30]) by mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f38M91V22605 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 00:09:01 +0200 (MET DST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0C078.849F1300" Received: from mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.57]) by mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22000 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 00:09:01 +0200 (MEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (mail.listserv.gmd.de [192.88.97.5]) by mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f38M90J13016 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 00:09:00 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (192.88.97.5) by mail.listserv.gmd.de (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <8.A3073BF3@mail.listserv.gmd.de>; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 0:08:15 +0200 Received: from RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 493101 for LATEX-L@RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 00:08:23 +0200 Received: from ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (mail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.119.234]) by relay.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA11081 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 00:08:21 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de (relay.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.212]) by ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA37642 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 00:08:21 +0200 Received: from mail.umu.se (custer.umdac.umu.se [130.239.8.14]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f38M8Lf07359 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 00:08:21 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from [130.239.137.13] (mariehemsv093.sn.umu.se [130.239.137.13]) by mail.umu.se (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA16631 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 00:08:21 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <15056.51187.541315.208840@istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de> References: Return-Path: X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se x-mime-autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by relay.urz.uni-heidelberg.de id AAA11082 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: Justification/std template Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 23:08:19 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lars_Hellstr=F6m?= Sender: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" To: "Multiple recipients of list LATEX-L" Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4031 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0C078.849F1300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 22.20 +0200 01-04-08, Frank Mittelbach wrote: >Lars, > > > I just noticed that the std template of type justification in the = xhj > > package globally sets the paragraph justification; at least its = settings > > aren't contained in an environment. How should one then go about = with > > implementing an environment that simply changes the justification = for the > > paragraphs inside it? To me this seems like a task which should be = simple; > > it shouldn't require using the galley2 interfaces. > >what's wrong with the idea of using something like the galley inferface >throughout (beside the fact that it isn't good enough yet (even as a = prototype >implementation))? You mean in addition to the fact that the xhj package abstract claims = you shouldn't use galley2 directly in more than 2% of the cases? >but i think that if you want extended control like offered by the = galley >interface you can't simply turn it on and off but have to stay within = its >model. That's not at all what I was doing. I simply had expected that changes = to justification would be contained by the normal grouping mechanism = (because they are in 2e) and the fact that they aren't suggests that there are things missing from the basic interfaces. For my present needs I can = just switch to using instances of the `single' template instead since the justification was changed for each new paragraph anyhow. I suspect = however that having changes of the justification (or whatever) apply for the duration of an environment will be a rather frequent request and one shouldn't have to go to the "special needs" interface to achieve it. It could be that you have to start a new galley level for the environment, = but then that should probably be given as an example somewhere. >but perhaps you are right and the whole thing needs further thought. > >throughout last week i worked on a frontmatter template interface for = handling >complex author/address relations etc. and for that I also needed to = interface >to paragraph justification. Since the galley interface isn't yet good = to be >usable in arbitrary circumstances I ended up implementnig a very = primitive >version of the xhj templates that can work on their own (just to get = that >frontmatter stuff working) It is a bit annoying that the galley stuff makes all old code so = completely ineffective. Would it be possible to create some templates which (at = each \par and in \everypar, I suspect) simply have the mechanisms look in the registers which take the names of the primitive parameters and uses the values found there? It would (hopefully) enable old code to work in the extent that it isn't overridden by settings using the LaTeX2e* = interfaces. >as side issue: is the xhj template at the right level of detail anyhow? Dunno, the only one I've used so far is justification. I'm probably = going to try out linebreak for an example, though (and for that example one = wants them to be independent). Lars Hellstr=F6m ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0C078.849F1300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: Justification/std template

At 22.20 +0200 01-04-08, Frank Mittelbach = wrote:
>Lars,
>
> > I just noticed that the std template of = type justification in the xhj
> > package globally sets the paragraph = justification; at least its settings
> > aren't contained in an environment. How = should one then go about with
> > implementing an environment that simply = changes the justification for the
> > paragraphs inside it? To me this seems like = a task which should be simple;
> > it shouldn't require using the galley2 = interfaces.
>
>what's wrong with the idea of using something = like the galley inferface
>throughout (beside the fact that it isn't good = enough yet (even as a prototype
>implementation))?

You mean in addition to the fact that the xhj package = abstract claims you
shouldn't use galley2 directly in more than 2% of the = cases?

>but i think that if you want extended control like = offered by the galley
>interface you can't simply turn it on and off but = have to stay within its
>model.

That's not at all what I was doing. I simply had = expected that changes to
justification would be contained by the normal = grouping mechanism (because
they are in 2e) and the fact that they aren't = suggests that there are
things missing from the basic interfaces. For my = present needs I can just
switch to using instances of the `single' template = instead since the
justification was changed for each new paragraph = anyhow. I suspect however
that having changes of the justification (or = whatever) apply for the
duration of an environment will be a rather frequent = request and one
shouldn't have to go to the "special needs" = interface to achieve it. It
could be that you have to start a new galley level = for the environment, but
then that should probably be given as an example = somewhere.

>but perhaps you are right and the whole thing = needs further thought.
>
>throughout last week i worked on a frontmatter = template interface for handling
>complex author/address relations etc. and for = that I also needed to interface
>to paragraph justification. Since the galley = interface isn't yet good to be
>usable in arbitrary circumstances I ended up = implementnig a very primitive
>version of the xhj templates that can work on = their own (just to get that
>frontmatter stuff working)

It is a bit annoying that the galley stuff makes all = old code so completely
ineffective. Would it be possible to create some = templates which (at each
\par and in \everypar, I suspect) simply have the = mechanisms look in the
registers which take the names of the primitive = parameters and uses the
values found there? It would (hopefully) enable old = code to work in the
extent that it isn't overridden by settings using the = LaTeX2e* interfaces.

>as side issue: is the xhj template at the right = level of detail anyhow?

Dunno, the only one I've used so far is justification. = I'm probably going
to try out linebreak for an example, though (and for = that example one wants
them to be independent).

Lars Hellstr=F6m

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0C078.849F1300--