Received: from webgate.proteosys.de (mail.proteosys-ag.com [62.225.9.49]) by lucy.proteosys (8.11.0/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) with ESMTP id f1FNtRH21704 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:55:27 +0100 Received: by webgate.proteosys.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1FNtRd12837 . for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:55:27 +0100 Received: from mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailserver1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.30]) by mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f1FNtRM20931 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:55:27 +0100 (MET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C097AA.C4E5C180" Received: from mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.56]) by mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25337 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:55:26 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (mail.listserv.gmd.de [192.88.97.5]) by mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f1FNtQM20925 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:55:26 +0100 (MET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (192.88.97.5) by mail.listserv.gmd.de (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <3.9830D876@mail.listserv.gmd.de>; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 0:55:18 +0100 Received: from RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 488081 for LATEX-L@RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:55:18 +0100 Received: from ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (mail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.119.234]) by relay.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA24074 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:55:17 +0100 (MET) Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de (relay.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.212]) by ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA47688 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:55:16 +0100 Received: from hromeo.algonet.se (hromeo.algonet.se [194.213.74.51]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id f1FNtFx03666 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:55:16 +0100 (MET) Received: (qmail 27979 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 00:55:15 +0100 Received: from delenn.tninet.se (HELO algonet.se) (195.100.94.104) by hromeo.algonet.se with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 00:55:15 +0100 Received: from [195.100.226.135] (du135-226.ppp.su-anst.tninet.se [195.100.226.135]) by delenn.tninet.se (BLUETAIL Mail Robustifier 2.2.1) with ESMTP id 892545.281313.982delenn-s2 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:55:13 +0100 In-Reply-To: <2.07b5.99YV.G8TJ0Z@cherepan.mccme.ru> References: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 2001 22:50:15 +0100." Return-Path: X-Sender: haberg@pop.matematik.su.se Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: Why markup? Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:52:28 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: From: "Hans Aberg" Sender: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" To: "Multiple recipients of list LATEX-L" Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3949 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C097AA.C4E5C180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 00:43 +0300 2001/02/16, Alexander Cherepanov wrote: >> If a sentence cannot be parsed by a human, it is of little use in the >> human world I gather. > >Such a sentence _without markup_ cannot be parsed by a human, so it's >useless when it doesn't have markup; I agree. But the author adds = markup to >the sentence, so it becomes useful. I'ld like to emphasize that the = author >doesn't parse anything (except his thoughts; and his thoughts are = already >markuped:-)) when he adds markup to his sentence. But what do you mean with the word "markup"; is that the same thing as = any contextual information, or does it mean certain marks on some words or groups? -- You can easily make a sentence like The gap in the last formula should be made like in the first one and the gap should be made like in the second one. (humanly) parsable by adding a sentence Note that the second "gap" is a mathematical object, or putting it somewhere else, like a different file, which is a way to represent fonts and styles in some text editors. -- So the information must be provided somehow, by syntax context, experience, etc, but not necessarily by what = is called "markup" in the sense of todays markup languages. -- The only thing that matters is how useful it is to the authors in forwarding their intent, and a more advanced grammar can help there. Hans Aberg ------_=_NextPart_001_01C097AA.C4E5C180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: Why markup?

At 00:43 +0300 2001/02/16, Alexander Cherepanov = wrote:
>> If a sentence cannot be parsed by a human, = it is of little use in the
>> human world I gather.
>
>Such a sentence _without markup_ cannot be parsed = by a human, so it's
>useless when it doesn't have markup; I agree. But = the author adds markup to
>the sentence, so it becomes useful. I'ld like to = emphasize that the author
>doesn't parse anything (except his thoughts; and = his thoughts are already
>markuped:-)) when he adds markup to his = sentence.

But what do you mean with the word "markup"; = is that the same thing as any
contextual information, or does it mean certain marks = on some words or
groups? -- You can easily make a sentence like
  The gap in the last formula should be
  made like in the first one and the gap should = be made like in the
  second one.
(humanly) parsable by adding a sentence
  Note that the second "gap" is a = mathematical object, or putting it
somewhere else, like a different file, which is a way = to represent fonts
and styles in some text editors. -- So the = information must be provided
somehow, by syntax context, experience, etc, but not = necessarily by what is
called "markup" in the sense of todays = markup languages.

-- The only thing that matters is how useful it is to = the authors in
forwarding their intent, and a more advanced grammar = can help there.

  Hans Aberg

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