Received: from webgate.proteosys.de (mail.proteosys-ag.com [62.225.9.49]) by lucy.proteosys (8.11.0/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) with ESMTP id f1FIUrH18082 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:30:53 +0100 Received: by webgate.proteosys.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1FIUrd11537 . for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:30:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0977D.6D7D2C80" Received: from mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailserver1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.30]) by mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f1FIUq715389 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:30:52 +0100 (MET) Received: from mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.56]) by mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29414 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:30:52 +0100 (MET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (mail.listserv.gmd.de [192.88.97.5]) by mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f1FIUoM29997 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:30:51 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (192.88.97.5) by mail.listserv.gmd.de (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <11.3FF68E2B@mail.listserv.gmd.de>; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:30:42 +0100 Received: from RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 489185 for LATEX-L@RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:30:47 +0100 Received: from ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (mail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.119.234]) by relay.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA18742 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:30:45 +0100 (MET) Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de (relay.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.212]) by ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA50922 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:30:46 +0100 Received: from dcdrjh.fnal.gov (dcdrjh.fnal.gov [131.225.232.66]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f1FIUlx18152 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:30:47 +0100 (MET) Received: (from herber@localhost) by dcdrjh.fnal.gov (SGI-8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA57764; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 12:30:36 -0600 (CST) References: Return-Path: Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: Side remarks about TeX input sequence Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:30:36 +0100 Message-ID: <200102151830.MAA57764@dcdrjh.fnal.gov> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: From: "Randolph J. Herber" Sender: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" To: "Multiple recipients of list LATEX-L" Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3942 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0977D.6D7D2C80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The following header lines retained to effect attribution: |Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:27:37 +0100 |From: Hans Aberg |Subject: Re: Side remarks about TeX input sequence |To: "Randolph J. Herber" |Cc: LATEX-L |At 15:41 -0600 2001/02/14, Randolph J. Herber wrote: |>|> In |>|>the past and even nowadays there exist other file types where the |>|>end-of-line marker is not part of the file (i.e. a special = character), |>|>e.g. files with a fixed-width record (aka line) length. |>|Today, which ones? |> Compaq OpenVMS and IBM OS/MVS are two examples |Are these OS's in continued widespread use, or are they dying? -- The = thing |is that without those OS line separator conventions, one can decide = that a |line separator should be \l, \r, or a \r\l (as in Java), and that would = be |platform independent. I am assuming that you are ignorant and not being sarcastic. Compaq OpenVMS is dying, I admit. It is the operating system for the former Digital Equipment Corporation computers, = including both DEC VAX computers and DEC Alpha computers. But, there are quite a few of them still running and many are becoming home or personal systems. TeX and LaTeX are available for them. I do not see that International Business Machines Corporation going out of business any time soon nor do I see that IBM would be withdrawning its flagship operating system for its large mainframe computers. These computers have an upward compatible CISC architecture that dates its beginnings from the late 1950's and which had single system installations with multiple = gigabytes of RAM and multiple terabytes of disk or disk-like storage in = the late 1970's (I know this because I worked on some). These = computers supported some form of interactive user environments since the early 1970's including CICS, TSO and POSIX-X/OPEN environments and frequently support several thousand users at the same time. I seem to recall that TeX and LaTeX has been ported at least once to such systems. I feel that it would be appropriate not to preclude such systems in the future. All that would be required would be to do a record level translation at TeX's lips to trim trailing spaces if the record format is fixed and append a line terminator and feed that to TeX's mouth. | Hans Aberg | * Email: Hans Aberg | * Home Page: | * AMS member listing: Randolph J. Herber, herber@fnal.gov, +1 630 840 2966, CD/CDFTF PK-149F, Mail Stop 318, Fermilab, Kirk & Pine Rds., PO Box 500, Batavia, IL = 60510-0500, USA. (Speaking for myself and not for US, US DOE, FNAL nor URA.) = (Product, trade, or service marks herein belong to their respective owners.) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0977D.6D7D2C80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: Side remarks about TeX input sequence

The following header lines retained to effect = attribution:
|Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:27:37 +0100
|From: Hans Aberg = <haberg@matematik.su.se>
|Subject: Re: Side remarks about TeX input = sequence
|To: "Randolph J. Herber" = <herber@fnal.gov>
|Cc: LATEX-L = <LATEX-L@URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE>

|At 15:41 -0600 2001/02/14, Randolph J. Herber = wrote:
|>|>  In
|>|>the past and even nowadays there exist = other file types where the
|>|>end-of-line marker is not part of the file = (i.e. a special character),
|>|>e.g. files with a fixed-width record (aka = line) length.

|>|Today, which ones?

|>      Compaq OpenVMS and = IBM OS/MVS are two examples

|Are these OS's in continued widespread use, or are = they dying? -- The thing
|is that without those OS line separator conventions, = one can decide that a
|line separator should be \l, \r, or a \r\l (as in = Java), and that would be
|platform independent.

        I am = assuming that you are ignorant and not being sarcastic.

        Compaq = OpenVMS is dying, I admit.  It is the operating system
        for the = former Digital Equipment Corporation computers, including
        both DEC = VAX computers and DEC Alpha computers.  But, there are
        quite a = few of them still running and many are becoming home or
        personal = systems.  TeX and LaTeX are available for them.

        I do not = see that International Business Machines Corporation
        going out = of business any time soon nor do I see that IBM would
        be = withdrawning its flagship operating system for its large
        mainframe = computers.  These computers have an upward compatible
        CISC = architecture that dates its beginnings from the late 1950's
        and which = had single system installations with multiple gigabytes
        of RAM and = multiple terabytes of disk or disk-like storage in the
        late = 1970's (I know this because I worked on some).  These = computers
        supported = some form of interactive user environments since the
        early = 1970's including CICS, TSO and POSIX-X/OPEN environments
        and = frequently support several thousand users at the same time.
        I seem to = recall that TeX and LaTeX has been ported at least
        once to = such systems.

        I feel that = it would be appropriate not to preclude such systems
        in the = future.  All that would be required would be to do a
        record = level translation at TeX's lips to trim trailing spaces
        if the = record format is fixed and append a line terminator and
        feed that = to TeX's mouth.

|  Hans Aberg
|          &nb= sp;       * Email: Hans Aberg <mailto:haberg@member.ams.org>= ;
|          &nb= sp;       * Home Page: <http://www.matematik.su.se/~= haberg/>
|          &nb= sp;       * AMS member listing: <http://www.ams.org/cml/>

Randolph J. Herber, herber@fnal.gov, +1 630 840 2966, = CD/CDFTF PK-149F,
Mail Stop 318, Fermilab, Kirk & Pine Rds., PO Box = 500, Batavia, IL 60510-0500,
USA.  (Speaking for myself and not for US, US = DOE, FNAL nor URA.)  (Product,
trade, or service marks herein belong to their = respective owners.)

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