Received: from webgate.proteosys.de (mail.proteosys-ag.com [62.225.9.49]) by lucy.proteosys (8.11.0/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) with ESMTP id f1DIAfH27738 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:10:41 +0100 Received: by webgate.proteosys.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1DIAed02293 . for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:10:41 +0100 Received: from mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailserver1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.30]) by mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f1DIAe726312 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:10:40 +0100 (MET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C095E8.46412680" Received: from mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.57]) by mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14448 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:10:40 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (mail.listserv.gmd.de [192.88.97.5]) by mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f1DIAd726304 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:10:39 +0100 (MET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (192.88.97.5) by mail.listserv.gmd.de (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <2.19AED4E7@mail.listserv.gmd.de>; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:10:32 +0100 Received: from RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 488764 for LATEX-L@RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:10:37 +0100 Received: from ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (mail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.119.234]) by relay.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA07498 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:10:33 +0100 (MET) Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de (relay.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.212]) by ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA54400 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:10:33 +0100 Received: from hromeo.algonet.se (hromeo.algonet.se [194.213.74.51]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id f1DIAXg24857 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:10:33 +0100 (MET) Received: (qmail 22897 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 19:10:31 +0100 Received: from garibaldi.tninet.se (HELO algonet.se) (195.100.94.103) by hromeo.algonet.se with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 19:10:31 +0100 Received: from [195.100.226.164] (du164-226.ppp.su-anst.tninet.se [195.100.226.164]) by garibaldi.tninet.se (BLUETAIL Mail Robustifier 2.2.1) with ESMTP id 336544.87828.982garibaldi-s2 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:10:28 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200102131655.QAA05656@penguin.nag.co.uk> References: (message from Roozbeh Pournader on Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:51:03 +0330) Return-Path: X-Sender: haberg@pop.matematik.su.se Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: Multilingual Encodings Summary Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:08:03 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: From: "Hans Aberg" Sender: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" To: "Multiple recipients of list LATEX-L" Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3888 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C095E8.46412680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 16:55 +0000 2001/02/13, David Carlisle wrote: >But I think the main problem is that it doesn't really make sense to >use unicode internally in standard TeX (which is a 7bit system >pretending to be 8bit). > >If latex switched to use omega (only) then >a) this might require omega to be more stable than omega users would >wish, ie it might prematurely limit addition of new features. >b) it would cut out people using tex systems that don't include omega. >You might say they should all switch to web2c tex, but that's like >saying that everyone should use emacs on linux. Clearly it's true, but >it doesn't happen that way. ... I think what is needed is something similar to what happened to Haskell: Haskell was developed with lots of experimental features until people complained that it was not possible to write a useful book using Haskell (that is, with code in it :-)), because the language probably had = changed until the time the book was published. So as a consequence to that, = there was a standardization which eventually resulted in Haskell 98, which is = a language which does not have all those latest experimental features, but = a stable core which people know will never change. Similarly, these problems discussed here seem to be in the need of a successor to TeX, but none of the current contenders seem to suffice. So one way would be to agree on a more limited TeX successor which will not need to change in the future. Hans Aberg ------_=_NextPart_001_01C095E8.46412680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: Multilingual Encodings Summary

At 16:55 +0000 2001/02/13, David Carlisle = wrote:
>But I think the main problem is that it doesn't = really make sense to
>use unicode internally in standard TeX (which is = a 7bit  system
>pretending to be 8bit).
>
>If latex switched to use omega (only) then
>a) this might require omega to be more stable = than omega users would
>wish, ie it might prematurely limit addition of = new features.
>b) it would cut out people using tex systems that = don't include omega.
>You might say they should all switch to web2c = tex, but that's like
>saying that everyone should use emacs on linux. = Clearly it's true, but
>it doesn't happen that way.
...

I think what is needed is something similar to what = happened to Haskell:
Haskell was developed with lots of experimental = features until people
complained that it was not possible to write a useful = book using Haskell
(that is, with code in it :-)), because the language = probably had changed
until the time the book was published. So as a = consequence to that, there
was a standardization which eventually resulted in = Haskell 98, which is a
language which does not have all those latest = experimental features, but a
stable core which people know will never = change.

Similarly, these problems discussed here seem to be in = the need of a
successor to TeX, but none of the current contenders = seem to suffice. So
one way would be to agree on a more limited TeX = successor which will not
need to change in the future.

  Hans Aberg

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