Received: from webgate.proteosys.de (mail.proteosys-ag.com [62.225.9.49]) by lucy.proteosys (8.11.0/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) with ESMTP id f1D9ItH24221 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:18:55 +0100 Received: by webgate.proteosys.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1D9Isd00635 . for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:18:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0959D.FCCBE980" Received: from mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailserver1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.30]) by mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f1D9IrM21352 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:18:53 +0100 (MET) Received: from mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.56]) by mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23314 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:18:53 +0100 (MET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (mail.listserv.gmd.de [192.88.97.5]) by mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f1D9IqM21348 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:18:52 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (192.88.97.5) by mail.listserv.gmd.de (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <1.CF99F2B0@mail.listserv.gmd.de>; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:18:45 +0100 Received: from RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 487699 for LATEX-L@RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:18:32 +0100 Received: from ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (mail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.119.234]) by relay.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA26640 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:18:31 +0100 (MET) Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de (relay.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.212]) by ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA51636 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:18:30 +0100 Received: from Sina.sharif.ac.ir (sina.Sharif.AC.IR [194.225.40.9]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f1D9IJu00073 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:18:21 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (roozbeh@localhost) by Sina.sharif.ac.ir (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20752 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 12:48:01 +0330 In-Reply-To: <14984.13275.957442.490284@istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de> Return-Path: X-Sender: roozbeh@Sina.sharif.ac.ir Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: insufficent NFSS model (?) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:18:01 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: From: "Roozbeh Pournader" Sender: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" To: "Multiple recipients of list LATEX-L" Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3870 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0959D.FCCBE980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Frank, Javier explained the idea somehow. I'm going into complete explanation here. Please ask for clarification if there are ambiguities. In Persian, we usually do not have the three classic families. In Iran, there is rarely a need for typewriter style, that's only used for Latin texts, and in the case they really need to show Persian on the screen, they use screenshots. Also, I know only three non-bitmap typewriter = fonts, and the only almost-free one is MS Courier. I use one of the other two when writing a manual, but I'm among the few who use such a thing. We also do not have equivalents of serif and sans-serif, there are fonts that have few details, using simple curves. They are usually called "Traffic"-like ("Traffic" is a font family itself, so that's somehow like saying "helvetica"-like, and is usually used for text on traffic signs). But we can't classify them according to this, because there is a spectrum between traffic for example, and things like "Lotus" and "Linotron" that are equivalents of serif fonts and are used widely for normal text. In the absense of that model, designers choose some families (for a mathematical book, I've seen from as few as one, to as many as six or seven), and specify that this heading or that caption should come out as in this family and that shape and size. Also, there's no "bx" (only "b"), there's no "sc" (no replacement), and usually there's no "it". Designers like to use real italics (known as "iranic" here, because they tend to left instead of right), but only a few families also have an italic companion with them (they are usually considered different families by vendors here, and there is "Azin" and "Iranic Azin" for example). Because of this, sometimes people use an Iranic font from one family, and an upright font from another. BTW, = people have forgotten that there exist real italics, and use slanted and backslanted fonts (with the name of "iranic" when it tends to left, and "italic" when it tends to left). Because of this lack of option, outline and shaded-outline shapes are = used much more in technical books, sometimes together with slanted and backslanted. The model that is used in available Persian software, modeled from how designers think, is something like this: family weight shape ------ ------ ----- normal medium upright italics bold slanted some others outline backslanted shaded-outline This the Persian model only. Then you need Latin. For each of the styles that also may contain Latin text, they should use an equivalent fonts that goes with it. There are some difficulties here also, one of them being the different direction and hence different slants: there are few backslanted Latin fonts, so you need to use slanted or italic Latin with backslanted Persian (which is as ugly as any backslanted font in any script). I think you have some ideas now. --roozbeh ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0959D.FCCBE980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: insufficent NFSS model (?)

Frank,

Javier explained the idea somehow. I'm going into = complete explanation
here. Please ask for clarification if there are = ambiguities.

In Persian, we usually do not have the three classic = families. In Iran,
there is rarely a need for typewriter style, that's = only used for Latin
texts, and in the case they really need to show = Persian on the screen,
they use screenshots. Also, I know only three = non-bitmap typewriter fonts,
and the only almost-free one is MS Courier. I use one = of the other two
when writing a manual, but I'm among the few who use = such a thing.

We also do not have equivalents of serif and = sans-serif, there are fonts
that have few details, using simple curves. They are = usually called
"Traffic"-like ("Traffic" is a = font family itself, so that's somehow
like saying "helvetica"-like, and is = usually used for text on traffic
signs). But we can't classify them according to this, = because there is a
spectrum between traffic for example, and things like = "Lotus" and
"Linotron" that are equivalents of serif = fonts and are used widely for
normal text.

In the absense of that model, designers choose some = families (for
a mathematical book, I've seen from as few as one, to = as many as six or
seven), and specify that this heading or that caption = should come out as
in this family and that shape and size.

Also, there's no "bx" (only "b"), = there's no "sc" (no replacement), and
usually there's no "it". Designers like to = use real italics (known as
"iranic" here, because they tend to left = instead of right), but only a
few families also have an italic companion with them = (they are usually
considered different families by vendors here, and = there is "Azin" and
"Iranic Azin" for example). Because of = this, sometimes people use an
Iranic font from one family, and an upright font from = another. BTW, people
have forgotten that there exist real italics, and use = slanted and
backslanted fonts (with the name of = "iranic" when it tends to left, and
"italic" when it tends to left).

Because of this lack of option, outline and = shaded-outline shapes are used
much more in technical books, sometimes together with = slanted and
backslanted. The model that is used in available = Persian software,
modeled from how designers think, is something like = this:

family        = weight           &= nbsp; shape
------        = ------           &= nbsp; -----
normal        = medium           &= nbsp; upright
italics       = bold           &nb= sp;   slanted
some others   = outline           = backslanted
          &nbs= p;   shaded-outline

This the Persian model only. Then you need Latin. For = each of the styles
that also may contain Latin text, they should use an = equivalent fonts
that goes with it. There are some difficulties here = also, one of them
being the different direction and hence different = slants: there are few
backslanted Latin fonts, so you need to use slanted = or italic Latin with
backslanted Persian (which is as ugly as any = backslanted font in any
script).

I think you have some ideas now.

--roozbeh

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