Received: from webgate.proteosys.de (mail.proteosys-ag.com [62.225.9.49]) by lucy.proteosys (8.11.0/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) with ESMTP id f1BHS9H11707 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:28:09 +0100 Received: by webgate.proteosys.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1BHS9d25716 . for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:28:09 +0100 Received: from mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailserver1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.30]) by mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f1BHS8717520 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:28:08 +0100 (MET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C09450.00515A80" Received: from mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.56]) by mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26483 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:28:08 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (mail.listserv.gmd.de [192.88.97.5]) by mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f1BHS7M05625 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:28:08 +0100 (MET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (192.88.97.5) by mail.listserv.gmd.de (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <6.D29925B1@mail.listserv.gmd.de>; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:27:58 +0100 Received: from RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 487669 for LATEX-L@RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:28:01 +0100 Received: from ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (mail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.119.234]) by relay.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA23029 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:27:49 +0100 (MET) Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de (relay.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.212]) by ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA37192 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:27:50 +0100 Received: from moutvdom00.kundenserver.de (moutvdom00.kundenserver.de [195.20.224.149]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f1BHRnu18714 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:27:49 +0100 (MET) Received: from [195.20.224.219] (helo=mrvdom03.kundenserver.de) by moutvdom00.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14S0Ht-00037h-00 for LATEX-L@urz.uni-heidelberg.de; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:27:49 +0100 Received: from manz-3e365958.pool.mediaways.net ([62.54.89.88] helo=istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de) by mrvdom03.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14S0Hn-0000MI-00 for LATEX-L@URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:27:43 +0100 Received: (from latex3@localhost) by istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de (8.9.3/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) id SAA12254; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:22:35 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20010211161537.A14176@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> References: <200102091445.JAA00482@plmsc.psu.edu> <200102091643.RAA23818@mozart.ujf-grenoble.Fr> <14980.23750.628032.305093@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <14982.45082.150652.74719@istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de> <20010211161537.A14176@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> Return-Path: X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under Emacs 20.4.1 X-Authentication-Warning: istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de: latex3 set sender to frank@mittelbach-online.de using -f Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: LaTeX's internal char prepresentation (UTF8 or Unicode?) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:22:35 +0100 Message-ID: <14982.51803.511929.675006@istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: From: "Frank Mittelbach" Sender: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" To: "Multiple recipients of list LATEX-L" Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3803 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09450.00515A80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Timothy, > On Sun, Feb 11, 2001 at 04:30:34PM +0100, Frank Mittelbach wrote: > > > TeX is 7bit with a parser that accepts 8bit but doesn't by default = gives it > > any meaning. On the other hand Omega is 16bit (or more these days?) = and could > > be viewed as internally using something like Unicode for = representation. > > But isn't the 7/8-bit stuff in TeX "system-dependent"? yes; which is why LaTex currently takes the approach that a) internally = we stay 7bit (especially when writing to files or reading back from them) = and do not support 8bit setups which do not pass 8bit straight through, ie we = do not think that the extension built into some TeXs to provide a hardwired = input encoding translation is a good one (since it will result in non-portable = TeX files. > I take this to mean optional. > Couldn't one therefore make UTF-8 the standard > without even asking the Great Man's premission? i'm not asking the Great Man's permission for anything like that, but = TeX is TeX (ie 7bit plus something not much helpful) and TeX is what the most = people use and will use for a long time to come. so i want LaTeX to run under = TeX as a platform and that means that UTF8 can't be a natural input encoding it = can only be something that LaTeX manually parses. frank ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09450.00515A80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: LaTeX's internal char prepresentation (UTF8 or = Unicode?)

Timothy,

 > On Sun, Feb 11, 2001 at 04:30:34PM +0100, = Frank Mittelbach wrote:
 >
 > > TeX is 7bit with a parser that = accepts 8bit but doesn't by default gives it
 > > any meaning. On the other hand Omega = is 16bit (or more these days?) and could
 > > be viewed as internally using = something like Unicode for representation.
 >
 > But isn't the 7/8-bit stuff in TeX = "system-dependent"?

yes; which is why LaTex currently takes the approach = that a) internally we
stay 7bit (especially when writing to files or = reading back from them) and do
not support 8bit setups which do not pass 8bit = straight through, ie we do not
think that the extension built into some TeXs to = provide a hardwired input
encoding translation is a good one (since it will = result in non-portable TeX
files.

 > I take this to mean optional.
 > Couldn't one therefore make UTF-8 the = standard
 > without even asking the Great Man's = premission?

i'm not asking the Great Man's permission for anything = like that, but TeX is
TeX  (ie 7bit plus something not much helpful) = and TeX is what the most people
use and will use for a long time to come. so i want = LaTeX to run under TeX as
a platform and that means that UTF8 can't be a = natural input encoding it can
only be something that LaTeX manually parses.

frank

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