Received: from webgate.proteosys.de (mail.proteosys-ag.com [62.225.9.49]) by lucy.proteosys (8.11.0/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) with ESMTP id f19CZ7H03263 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:35:07 +0100 Received: by webgate.proteosys.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f19CZ6d17546 . for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:35:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C09294.BBCD8F80" Received: from mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailserver1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.30]) by mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f19CZ6711372 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:35:06 +0100 (MET) Received: from mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.56]) by mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27468 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:35:05 +0100 (MET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (mail.listserv.gmd.de [192.88.97.5]) by mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f19CZ4M29703 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:35:05 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (192.88.97.5) by mail.listserv.gmd.de (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <15.8F736329@mail.listserv.gmd.de>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:34:58 +0100 Received: from RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 488082 for LATEX-L@RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:35:01 +0100 Received: from ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (mail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.119.234]) by relay.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16207 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:34:59 +0100 (MET) Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de (relay.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.212]) by ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA31376 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:35:00 +0100 Received: from matups.math.u-psud.fr (mathups.math.u-psud.fr [129.175.52.4]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f19CYxu18171 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:34:59 +0100 (MET) Received: from stats.math.u-psud.fr (beryl.math.u-psud.fr [129.175.54.194]) by matups.math.u-psud.fr (8.11.0/jtpda-5.3.3) with ESMTP id f19CYrG14338 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:34:53 +0100 (MET) Received: (from sieben@localhost) by stats.math.u-psud.fr (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id NAA06041; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:36:44 GMT Return-Path: Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: MLTeX vs AE virtual fonts Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:36:44 +0100 Message-ID: <200102091336.NAA06041@stats.math.u-psud.fr> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: From: "Laurent Siebenmann" Sender: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" To: "Multiple recipients of list LATEX-L" Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3772 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09294.BBCD8F80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable David! > currently I haven't seen any arguments why mltex > primitives are technically superior to vf There are two big reasons: 1) default use of ML TeX produces standard Knuthian output, namely DVI files (a Fuchs-Knuth standard) appealing to standard CM fonts (Knuth). There is no electronic document format that is overall better re compactness, usability, and long term stability. The use of VFs leads to DVIs that involve AE fonts that may change and are not widely installed. Conversion AE =3D=3D> CM of the DVI using the utility dvicopy yields a CM based DVI that is many times bigger than the DVI from MLTeX and also slower... 2) A sophomore TeX user is able to tweak the accent definitions in MLTeX to achieve useful typographic results for an individual job. The similar change using VFs requires a font gourou and possibly several jobs to amortize the the time investment. -------------- > that [VF > MLTeX] presumably was Knuth's opinion at the > time, mltex predates vf, doesn't it? There are no grounds to presume. Knuth went to great pains to assert Fuchs' priority (over Adobe Inc, J. Warnock?) in the introduction of the VF concept. The clear priority of Ferguson on the MLTeX idea is rather (*I presume*;=3D) the reason for its exclusion from TeX 3. For the future, I hope that (in addition to VFs) the MLTeX feature will be in NTS. I really would want a more flexible MLTeX feature where for example accent definitions can be successfully changed inside a paragraph --- say in switching between French and German. Best wishes, Laurent S PS. I have not noticed the slightest typographical difference between the accent typography of AE fonts and that produced by Knuth's accent control sequences (or default MLTeX), but I have not examined all details by any means! AE author Lars Engebretsen, might be receptive to criticism. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09294.BBCD8F80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: MLTeX vs AE virtual fonts

David!

 > currently I haven't seen any arguments why = mltex
 > primitives are technically superior to = vf

There are two big reasons:

1) default use of ML TeX produces standard Knuthian = output, namely DVI
files (a Fuchs-Knuth standard) appealing to standard = CM fonts (Knuth).
There is no electronic document format that is = overall better re
compactness, usability, and long term stability. = The
use of VFs leads to DVIs that involve AE fonts that = may change and are
not widely installed.  Conversion AE =3D=3D> = CM of the DVI using
the utility dvicopy yields a CM based DVI that is = many times bigger than
the DVI from MLTeX and also slower...

2) A sophomore TeX user is able to tweak the accent = definitions in MLTeX
to achieve useful typographic results for an = individual job. The similar
change using VFs requires a font gourou and possibly = several jobs to
amortize the the time investment.

         = --------------

 > that [VF > MLTeX] presumably was Knuth's = opinion at the
 > time, mltex predates vf, doesn't = it?

There are no grounds to presume.  Knuth went to = great pains to assert
Fuchs' priority (over Adobe Inc, J. Warnock?) in the = introduction of the
VF concept.  The clear priority of Ferguson on = the MLTeX idea is rather
(*I presume*;=3D) the reason for its exclusion from = TeX 3.

     For the future, I hope that = (in addition to VFs) the MLTeX feature
will be in NTS.  I really would want a more = flexible MLTeX feature where
for example accent definitions can be successfully = changed inside a
paragraph --- say in switching between French and = German.

          &nbs= p;      Best wishes,

          &nbs= p;           Laurent = S

PS.  I have not noticed the slightest = typographical difference between
the accent typography of AE fonts and that produced = by Knuth's accent
control sequences (or default MLTeX), but I have not = examined all
details by any means!  AE author Lars = Engebretsen, <enge@nada.kth.se>
might be receptive to criticism.

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