Received: from webgate.proteosys.de (mail.proteosys-ag.com [62.225.9.49]) by lucy.proteosys (8.11.0/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) with ESMTP id f18BfcH30152 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:41:38 +0100 Received: by webgate.proteosys.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f18Bfcd13096 . for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:41:38 +0100 Received: from mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailserver1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.30]) by mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f18Bfb725462 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:41:37 +0100 (MET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C091C4.18AD4500" Received: from mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.57]) by mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13090 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:41:37 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (mail.listserv.gmd.de [192.88.97.5]) by mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f18Bfa725457 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:41:37 +0100 (MET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (192.88.97.5) by mail.listserv.gmd.de (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.EB33C670@mail.listserv.gmd.de>; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:41:28 +0100 Received: from RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 488128 for LATEX-L@RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:41:30 +0100 Received: from ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (mail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.119.234]) by relay.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA16914 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:41:29 +0100 (MET) Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de (relay.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.212]) by ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA39830 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:41:29 +0100 Received: from gate.eds.de (gate.eds.de [192.85.16.1]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id f18BfPu13254 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:41:29 +0100 (MET) Received: from ux28.nets.de.eds.com by gate.eds.de with SMTP id MAA07856 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 4.2 for ); Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:41:24 +0100 Received: (from pzf5hz@localhost) by ux28.nets.de.eds.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.7.1) id MAA24075; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:41:23 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: References: <14968.6710.114015.220264@ux28.nets.de.eds.com> <200101292234.RAA14964@pluto.math.albany.edu> <14967.8829.903878.620595@istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de> <200101310003.BAA02073@peano.cs.uni-dortmund.de> <14967.46479.253389.421142@istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de> Return-Path: X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under Emacs 20.3.2 X-Authentication-Warning: ux28.nets.de.eds.com: pzf5hz set sender to frank.mittelbach@smc.eds.de using -f Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: inputenc -> text+math Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:41:22 +0100 Message-ID: <14978.34274.931619.388835@ux28.nets.de.eds.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: From: "Frank Mittelbach" Sender: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" To: "Multiple recipients of list LATEX-L" Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3747 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C091C4.18AD4500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I don't follow you here. If the primitive isn't changed (which is = what I > suggested) then everything which works today will continue to work = (not > bomb), whereas if it is changed things may certainly bomb. By = providing a no it is the other way around. if, say, via inputenc we would be able to specify that pressing the key a-umlaut generates \"a in text and \ddot a in math (hope that exists :-) then using that in an array like = macro which doesn't handle the checking correctly, you will end up with \"a inside math and that will bomb. thus you would need to update all such uses of \halign to use \latex@halign istead. > fixed equivalent of the primitive, but not actually replacing it, = package > writers can change their code to take advantage of these new macros = and > thus have their code work in cases it previously didn't, whilst = unchanged > code would continue to behave as it used to (most of the time work, = but > fail in the odd cases discussed here). the problem is that these aren't "odd" cases really. not when you go and try to make every keyboard character usable everywhere. right now essentially any keyboard key outside visible ascci is only allowed in text mode so the problem doesn't arise (and the only problem that does arise is the one when you try to write extended array syntax and try to specify font encoding changes as part of the >{...} part. > PS: Pity Donald's solution didn't work. TeX probably ought to have = been in > the "no mode" (like when expanding the text for a \write) when it is > looking for \noalign or \omit; then there would have been a test. probably but even then it would be a kind of horrible test, wouldn't it? = since there is no \ifnomode frank ------_=_NextPart_001_01C091C4.18AD4500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: inputenc -> text+math

 > I don't follow you here. If the primitive = isn't changed (which is what I
 > suggested) then everything which works = today will continue to work (not
 > bomb), whereas if it is changed things may = certainly bomb. By providing a

no it is the other way around. if, say, via inputenc = we would be able
to specify that pressing the key a-umlaut generates = \"a in text and
\ddot a in math (hope that exists :-) then using that = in an array like macro
which doesn't handle the checking correctly, you will = end up with \"a
inside math and that will bomb. thus you would need = to update all such
uses of \halign to use \latex@halign istead.

 > fixed equivalent of the primitive, but not = actually replacing it, package
 > writers can change their code to take = advantage of these new macros and
 > thus have their code work in cases it = previously didn't, whilst unchanged
 > code would continue to behave as it used = to (most of the time work, but
 > fail in the odd cases discussed = here).

the problem is that these aren't "odd" cases = really. not when you go
and try to make every keyboard character usable = everywhere. right now
essentially any keyboard key outside visible ascci is = only allowed in
text mode so the problem doesn't arise (and the only = problem that does
arise is the one when you try to write extended array = syntax and try
to specify font encoding changes as part of the = >{...} part.

 > PS: Pity Donald's solution didn't work. TeX = probably ought to have been in
 > the "no mode" (like when = expanding the text for a \write) when it is
 > looking for \noalign or \omit; then there = would have been a test.

probably but even then it would be a kind of horrible = test, wouldn't it? since there is no \ifnomode

frank

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