Received: from webgate.proteosys.de (mail.proteosys-ag.com [62.225.9.49]) by lucy.proteosys (8.11.0/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) with ESMTP id f16BKlH05869 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:20:47 +0100 Received: by webgate.proteosys.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f16BKkd04435 . for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:20:47 +0100 Received: from mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailserver1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.30]) by mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f16BKk720563 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:20:46 +0100 (MET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0902E.DA325180" Received: from mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.57]) by mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15981 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:20:45 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (mail.listserv.gmd.de [192.88.97.5]) by mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f16BKj720559 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:20:45 +0100 (MET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (192.88.97.5) by mail.listserv.gmd.de (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.AECB056C@mail.listserv.gmd.de>; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:20:40 +0100 Received: from RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 488031 for LATEX-L@RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:20:41 +0100 Received: from ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (mail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.119.234]) by relay.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00079 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:20:40 +0100 (MET) Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de (relay.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.212]) by ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA101846 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:20:41 +0100 Received: from moutvdom00.kundenserver.de (moutvdom00.kundenserver.de [195.20.224.149]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f16BKfu00306 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:20:41 +0100 (MET) Received: from [195.20.224.204] (helo=mrvdom00.kundenserver.de) by moutvdom00.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14Q6Aq-0006Uq-00 for LATEX-L@urz.uni-heidelberg.de; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:20:40 +0100 Received: from dialin360.zdv.uni-mainz.de ([134.93.175.60] helo=istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de) by mrvdom00.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14Q6AE-0000yE-00 for LATEX-L@URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:20:02 +0100 Received: (from latex3@localhost) by istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de (8.9.3/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) id MAA20562; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:12:11 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20010206101702.A5774@clipper.ens.fr> References: <20010206101702.A5774@clipper.ens.fr> Return-Path: X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under Emacs 20.4.1 X-Authentication-Warning: istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de: latex3 set sender to frank@mittelbach-online.de using -f Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: default inputenc/fontenc tight to language Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:12:11 +0100 Message-ID: <14975.56331.365469.731085@istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: From: "Frank Mittelbach" Sender: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" To: "Multiple recipients of list LATEX-L" Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3713 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0902E.DA325180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eric, > Sorry for replying late. Hey, in the internet age, a 4 days delay is = a > long time... perhaps but sometimes on this list half a year is fast. > What is sure, is that once a default encoding is choosen, it will be = hard > to change it (the only way would probably be to change \documentclass > into \documenttype :-) which is a problem at this current point in time as well. > > finally applying the wrong input encoding to a document not in that > > encoding results in typesetting errors but not in compilation = errors. > > true, this can also happen if you explicitly specify the wrong = encoding > > but this is a conscious act (or so we would hope) and not something = htat > > happens behind the scene > > I have seen many beginners that begin typing in french their document > without declaring an inputenc, and not realizing at once that accents = are > missing in the document. I would not call forgetting an \usepackage > declaration a conscious act. this is a problem agreed, because of this unfortunate fact of letting = 8bit loose if no inputenc is specified. but providing an input encoding automatically would be a big = compatibility problem and within 2e kernel we have a firm policy of not doing this = (and if we move it to a package (aka inputenc) then you are back to your above problem). > > which reminds me: please take the list of languages babel currently = supports > > and attach to them input/font encoding defaults that would be = suitable, i > > would really be interested in see such a list (and have it = disucssed) > > Oh, I am certainly not able to do that. If I was to make a choice, I > would use the appropriate latinxxx encodings for each language, but I = am > certainly not qualified to choose for all those languages. who will? the user groups? for many lanugages there isn't a user group anyway, for the code that i'm currently writing i've added a way to = specify inputencodings by language (or script) at least for the moment frank ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0902E.DA325180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: default inputenc/fontenc tight to language

Eric,

 > Sorry for replying late. Hey, in the = internet age, a 4 days delay is a
 > long time...

perhaps but sometimes on this list half a year is = fast.

 > What is sure, is that once a default = encoding is choosen, it will be hard
 > to change it (the only way would probably = be to change \documentclass
 > into \documenttype :-)

which is a problem at this current point in time as = well.

 > > finally applying the wrong input = encoding to a document not in that
 > > encoding results in typesetting = errors but not in compilation errors.
 > > true, this can also happen if you = explicitly specify the wrong encoding
 > > but this is a conscious act (or so we = would hope) and not something htat
 > > happens behind the scene
 >
 > I have seen many beginners that begin = typing in french their document
 > without declaring an inputenc, and not = realizing at once that accents are
 > missing in the document. I would not call = forgetting an \usepackage
 > declaration a conscious act.

this is a problem agreed, because of this unfortunate = fact of letting 8bit
loose if no inputenc is specified.

but providing an input encoding automatically would be = a big compatibility
problem and within 2e kernel we have a firm policy of = not doing this (and if
we move it to a package (aka inputenc) then you are = back to your above
problem).


 > > which reminds me: please take the list = of languages babel currently supports
 > > and attach to them input/font = encoding defaults that would be suitable, i
 > > would really be interested in see = such a list (and have it disucssed)
 >
 > Oh, I am certainly not able to do that. If = I was to make a choice, I
 > would use the appropriate latinxxx = encodings for each language, but I am
 > certainly not qualified to choose for all = those languages.

who will? the user groups? for many lanugages there = isn't a user group

anyway, for the code that i'm currently writing i've = added a way to specify
inputencodings by language (or script) at least for = the moment

frank

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