Received: from webgate.proteosys.de (mail.proteosys-ag.com [62.225.9.49]) by lucy.proteosys (8.11.0/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) with ESMTP id f11A7O728976 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 11:07:24 +0100 Received: by webgate.proteosys.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f11A8D702788 . for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 11:08:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C08C36.C5BD1600" Received: from mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailserver1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.30]) by mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f11A7IM12876 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 11:07:18 +0100 (MET) Received: from mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.57]) by mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06252 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 11:07:18 +0100 (MET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (mail.listserv.gmd.de [192.88.97.5]) by mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f11A7G719253 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 11:07:16 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (192.88.97.5) by mail.listserv.gmd.de (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <15.97D39812@mail.listserv.gmd.de>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 11:07:13 +0100 Received: from RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 485703 for LATEX-L@RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 11:07:13 +0100 Received: from ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (mail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.119.234]) by relay.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA04254 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 11:07:12 +0100 (MET) Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de (relay.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.212]) by ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA47148 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 11:07:12 +0100 Received: from nef.ens.fr (nef.ens.fr [129.199.96.32]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f11A7Cp01870 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 11:07:12 +0100 (MET) Received: from clipper.ens.fr (clipper-gw.ens.fr [129.199.1.22]) by nef.ens.fr (8.10.1/1.01.28121999) with ESMTP id f11A7B550804 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 11:07:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from (ebrunet@localhost) by clipper.ens.fr (8.9.2/jb-1.1) Return-Path: User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: default inputenc/fontenc tight to language Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 11:07:10 +0100 Message-ID: <20010201110710.A16753@clipper.ens.fr> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: From: "Eric Brunet" Sender: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" To: "Multiple recipients of list LATEX-L" Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3692 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C08C36.C5BD1600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Franck Mittelbach wrote: > Johannes talkes about the difficulties in providing this, but is it = really > something one wants? > - except when using mule (or emacs) one doesn't (automatically) > change input encodings when changing a language in the middle of > the document. I am not quite sure I understand what you mean here, so I won't comment. > - beside, even if, for the same language many different input > encodings would be in use so you can't even pick a default without > making a lot of people unhappy. you can write german using cp437de > or latin1 or ansinew or ... depending the OS used or the keyboard > or ... > - same is true for font encodings: my question about OT1 T1 showed > that clearly, some people never use OT1 these days others only = (and > both writing in the same language) Sure, there might be many different possible settings, and one can only choose a default one. But I don't quite see how this could be an = argument for not making a decision. For the moment, all the users must define an inputencoding/fontencoding tuple for all the languages in their = document. If a default is choosen, then only some of them (and hopefully a = minority of them) would have to specify something. Surely it is on the whole a better solution. > i guess the only way to tie something like this to the language is as > an offering, ie by default nothing is tied to a language but you have = a > mechanism to say that all switches to language X result in switching > the inputenc to Y and give the user a chance to specify this in the > preamble. Certainly it would be usefull to have a mechanism that binds an input = and a font encodings to each language. But again, it is not because it is impossible to please everybody that no default should be choosen. = Imagine that I don't like the default margins in a LaTeX document. As it would = be impossible to please me (and probably others), would that mean that = there should be no default margin and that everybody should invoke the = geometry package and explicitely give their prefered sizes ? I used to teach LaTeX to beginners, and it was always very difficult to explain why it was necessary that any document should have 5 or 6 lines of preambule, even to just typeset a single sentence. -- =C9ric Brunet ------_=_NextPart_001_01C08C36.C5BD1600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: default inputenc/fontenc tight to language

Franck Mittelbach wrote:
>  Johannes talkes about the difficulties in = providing this, but is it really
>  something one wants?

>   - except when using mule (or emacs) = one doesn't (automatically)
>     change input encodings = when changing a language in the middle of
>     the document.

I am not quite sure I understand what you mean here, = so I won't comment.

>   - beside, even if, for the same = language many different input
>     encodings would be in = use so you can't even pick a default without
>     making a lot of people = unhappy. you can write german using cp437de
>     or latin1 or ansinew or = ... depending the OS used or the keyboard
>     or ...
>   - same is true for font encodings: = my question about OT1 T1 showed
>     that clearly, some = people never use OT1 these days others only (and
>     both writing in the same = language)

Sure, there might be many different possible settings, = and one can only
choose a default one. But I don't quite see how this = could be an argument
for not making a decision. For the moment, all the = users must define an
inputencoding/fontencoding tuple for all the = languages in their document.
If a default is choosen, then only some of them (and = hopefully a minority
of them) would have to specify something. Surely it = is on the whole a
better solution.

> i guess the only way to tie something like this = to the language is as
> an offering, ie by default nothing is tied to a = language but you have a
> mechanism to say that all switches to language X = result in switching
> the inputenc to Y and give the user a chance to = specify this in the
> preamble.

Certainly it would be usefull to have a mechanism that = binds an input and
a font encodings to each language. But again, it is = not because it is
impossible to please everybody that no default should = be choosen. Imagine
that I don't like the default margins in a LaTeX = document. As it would be
impossible to please me (and probably others), would = that mean that there
should be no default margin and that everybody should = invoke the geometry
package and explicitely give their prefered sizes = ?

I used to teach LaTeX to beginners, and it was always = very difficult to
explain why it was necessary that any document should = have 5 or 6 lines
of preambule, even to just typeset a single = sentence.

--

        =C9ric = Brunet

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