Received: from webgate.proteosys.de (mail.proteosys-ag.com [62.225.9.49]) by lucy.proteosys (8.11.0/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) with ESMTP id f0VMS8726953 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:28:08 +0100 Received: by webgate.proteosys.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0VMSu700824 . for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:28:56 +0100 Received: from mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailserver1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.30]) by mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f0VMS2M08830 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:28:02 +0100 (MET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C08BD5.16038C00" Received: from mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.56]) by mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12662 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:28:02 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (mail.listserv.gmd.de [192.88.97.5]) by mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f0VMS1M08826 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:28:01 +0100 (MET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (192.88.97.5) by mail.listserv.gmd.de (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <15.E8A76337@mail.listserv.gmd.de>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:27:58 +0100 Received: from RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 486450 for LATEX-L@RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:27:57 +0100 Received: from ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (mail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.119.234]) by relay.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA29244 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:27:56 +0100 (MET) Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de (relay.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.212]) by ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA54726 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:27:57 +0100 Received: from moutvdom01.kundenserver.de (moutvdom01.kundenserver.de [195.20.224.200]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f0VMRvp26395 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:27:57 +0100 (MET) Received: from [195.20.224.204] (helo=mrvdom00.kundenserver.de) by moutvdom01.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14O5jD-000738-00 for LATEX-L@urz.uni-heidelberg.de; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:27:51 +0100 Received: from manz-3e364736.pool.mediaways.net ([62.54.71.54] helo=istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de) by mrvdom00.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14O5im-0003uL-00 for LATEX-L@URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:27:24 +0100 Received: (from latex3@localhost) by istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de (8.9.3/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) id XAA03139; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:25:29 +0100 In-Reply-To: <01JZJZKE0WG400087L@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> References: <01JZJZKE0WG400087L@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> Return-Path: X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under Emacs 20.4.1 X-Authentication-Warning: istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de: latex3 set sender to frank@mittelbach-online.de using -f Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: inputenc text (and/or math) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:25:29 +0100 Message-ID: <14968.37081.627751.44527@istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: From: "Frank Mittelbach" Sender: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" To: "Multiple recipients of list LATEX-L" Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3690 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C08BD5.16038C00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable J%ORG KNAPPEN writes: > Long time ago, I wrote my own inputenc files making *all* high = characters > text character. The definition files (latin1jk.def, latin2jk.def, > and latin3jk.def) are available from CTAN > (latex/contrib/supported/jknappen). > something like this yes (perhaps even exactly this) > If the standard inputenc files are changed, I strongly plea for "dual = use" > characters. The standard ASCII characters with a few exceptions can = be used > in text and math as well. A user expects the high character not to be > different > in this respect. depends on what dual means. if you mean that you want the result of a = key mapping (eg \"a) be available text or math then i'm not. i strongly plea for math only accepts the small set of real ascii, ie 0-9 a-z A-Z !"/()=3D?`'+*<>|,;.:- plus commands by default (repeat: default). the set of exceptions is a) not well-defined an b) potentially unlimited = and thus even more difficult to explain than anything else. because what you are really have to do then is to make all font encoding specific commands available in math and that doesn't work, a lot have to equivalent there. > However, the whole setup using active characters makes such kind of = change > rather difficult. it is not so much that but the question what \c{c} should mean in math, = should it map to \mbox{\c{c}}? probably not; should \"a map to \ddot\a ? perhaps. what about \`\^{a} as supported by T5 Vietnamese? right now there are roughly 900+ font-encoding-specific commands, i want = to keep those text (only). so i don't think "math" should be regarded as another "fontencoding" = though that would be possible in theory. instead i would think something like \DeclareInputTextAndMath should be offered for those languages/keyboards where a dual nature for input = "keys" really makes sense, greek and cyrillic comes to mind. but i would consider this a dual mapping from input "key" to either a = text command (if in text) or a math command if in math, eg \DeclareInputTextAndMath{}{\textalpha}{\alpha} you may have meant that as well, have you? i still feel that for something like latin1 this doesn't make much and i = would prefer to see only \DeclareInputText there but ... frank ------_=_NextPart_001_01C08BD5.16038C00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: inputenc text (and/or math)

J%ORG KNAPPEN writes:

 > Long time ago, I wrote my own inputenc = files making *all* high characters
 > text character. The definition files = (latin1jk.def, latin2jk.def,
 > and latin3jk.def) are available from = CTAN
 > (latex/contrib/supported/jknappen).
 >

something like this yes (perhaps even exactly = this)

 > If the standard inputenc files are changed, = I strongly plea for "dual use"
 > characters. The standard ASCII characters = with a few exceptions can be used
 > in text and math as well. A user expects = the high character not to be
 > different
 > in this respect.

depends on what dual means. if you mean that you want = the result of a key
mapping (eg \"a) be available text or math = then

i'm not. i strongly plea for math only accepts the = small set of real
ascii, ie

 0-9  a-z A-Z  = !"/()=3D?`'+*<>|,;.:-
 plus commands

by default (repeat: default).

the set of exceptions is a) not well-defined an b) = potentially unlimited and
thus even more difficult to explain than anything = else.

because what you are really have to do then is to make = all font encoding
specific commands available in math and that doesn't = work, a lot have to
equivalent there.

 > However, the whole setup using active = characters makes such kind of change
 > rather difficult.

it is not so much that but the question what \c{c} = should mean in math, should
it map to \mbox{\c{c}}? probably not; should \"a = map to \ddot\a ?
perhaps. what about \`\^{a} as supported by T5 = Vietnamese?

right now there are roughly 900+ = font-encoding-specific commands, i want to
keep those text (only).

so i don't think "math" should be regarded = as another "fontencoding" though
that would be possible in theory.

instead i would think something like = \DeclareInputTextAndMath should be
offered for those languages/keyboards where a dual = nature for input "keys"
really makes sense, greek and cyrillic comes to = mind.

but i would consider this a dual mapping from input = "key" to either a text
command (if in text) or a math command if in math, = eg

\DeclareInputTextAndMath{<somenumber>}{\textalpha}{\alpha}=

you may have meant that as well, have you?


i still feel that for something like latin1 this = doesn't make much and i would
prefer to see only \DeclareInputText there but = ...

frank

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