Received: from webgate.proteosys.de (mail.proteosys-ag.com [62.225.9.49]) by lucy.proteosys (8.11.0/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) with ESMTP id f0V8nH716529 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:49:17 +0100 Received: by webgate.proteosys.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0V8o5730561 . for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:50:05 +0100 Received: from mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailserver1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.30]) by mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f0V8nGM28983 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:49:16 +0100 (MET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C08B62.B1A7E480" Received: from mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.56]) by mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14953 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:49:15 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (mail.listserv.gmd.de [192.88.97.5]) by mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f0V8nFM28974 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:49:15 +0100 (MET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (192.88.97.5) by mail.listserv.gmd.de (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.85579795@mail.listserv.gmd.de>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 9:49:09 +0100 Received: from RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 485152 for LATEX-L@RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:49:09 +0100 Received: from ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (mail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.119.234]) by relay.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA13603 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:49:07 +0100 (MET) Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de (relay.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.212]) by ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA23332 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:49:07 +0100 Received: from relay2.vsu.ru (mail.vsu.ru [62.76.169.17]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f0V8mNp13421 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:48:32 +0100 (MET) Received: by relay2.vsu.ru (Postfix, from userid 5) id 035381A8E; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:47:58 +0300 (MSK) Received: (from vvv@localhost) by vvv.vsu.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA13708; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:43:39 +0300 In-Reply-To: <14967.46479.253389.421142@istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de> Lines: 34 References: <200101292234.RAA14964@pluto.math.albany.edu> <14967.8829.903878.620595@istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de> <200101310003.BAA02073@peano.cs.uni-dortmund.de> <14967.46479.253389.421142@istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de> Return-Path: User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.4 X-Authentication-Warning: vvv.vsu.ru: vvv set sender to vvv@vvv.vsu.ru using -f Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: inputenc -> text+math Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:43:37 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: From: "Vladimir Volovich" Sender: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" To: "Multiple recipients of list LATEX-L" Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3678 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C08B62.B1A7E480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "FM" =3D=3D Frank Mittelbach writes: FM> for "symbols" like the above this can in fact be done this way FM> and a few symbols hare "historically defined this way, ie FM> \pounds -> \relax\ifmmode\mathsterling\else\textsterling FM> but you need the \relax to ensure that the right thing happens at FM> the beginning of tabular cells (timing problem in \halign) FM> and this is the problem: you can't do that to "letters", the use FM> of \relax there prohibits potential ligatures and not doing it FM> means your definition produce wrong results or blow up in certain FM> situations there is a solution for this problem used in the mathtext package available from CTAN:macros/latex/contrib/supported/t2/etc/mathtext.{dtx,ins} this package is referred to as experimental in the doculentation of the cyrillic latex bundle. the approach used in the mathtext package proved to be stable enough: i know a lot of people do use it for `transparent' cyrillic letters in math, and i did not hear about bug for a long time now. the mechanism mostly works on a fontenc layer, rather than on inputenc. so, something like this could be used to make even `letters' work in both modes (however, mathtext currently only redefines \DeclareTextSymbol, which is sufficient for cyrillic, but to make it work for T1 font encoding, one needs to extend redefinitions of other commands like composite declarations, etc). Best regards, -- Vladimir. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C08B62.B1A7E480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: inputenc -> text+math

"FM" =3D=3D Frank Mittelbach writes:

 FM> for "symbols" like the above = this can in fact be done this way
 FM> and a few symbols hare = "historically defined this way, ie

 FM> \pounds -> = \relax\ifmmode\mathsterling\else\textsterling

 FM> but you need the \relax to ensure that = the right thing happens at
 FM> the beginning of tabular cells (timing = problem in \halign)

 FM> and this is the problem: you can't do = that to "letters", the use
 FM> of \relax there prohibits potential = ligatures and not doing it
 FM> means your definition produce wrong = results or blow up in certain
 FM> situations

there is a solution for this problem used in the = mathtext package
available from
CTAN:macros/latex/contrib/supported/t2/etc/mathtext.{dtx,ins}

this package is referred to as experimental in the = doculentation of
the cyrillic latex bundle.

the approach used in the mathtext package proved to be = stable enough:
i know a lot of people do use it for `transparent' = cyrillic letters in
math, and i did not hear about bug for a long time = now. the mechanism
mostly works on a fontenc layer, rather than on = inputenc.

so, something like this could be used to make even = `letters' work in
both modes (however, mathtext currently only = redefines
\DeclareTextSymbol, which is sufficient for cyrillic, = but to make it
work for T1 font encoding, one needs to extend = redefinitions of other
commands like composite declarations, etc).

        Best = regards, -- Vladimir.

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