Received: from webgate.proteosys.de (mail.proteosys-ag.com [62.225.9.49]) by lucy.proteosys (8.11.0/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) with ESMTP id f05868p28508 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:06:08 +0100 Received: by webgate.proteosys.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0586E724741 . for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:06:17 +0100 Received: from mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailserver1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.30]) by mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f0585xM17956 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:05:59 +0100 (MET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C076EE.5BC05800" Received: from mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.57]) by mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26025 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:05:58 +0100 (MET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (mail.listserv.gmd.de [192.88.97.5]) by mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f0585v027994 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:05:57 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (192.88.97.5) by mail.listserv.gmd.de (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <15.2DCF16DC@mail.listserv.gmd.de>; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 9:05:57 +0100 Received: from RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 477741 for LATEX-L@RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:05:54 +0100 Received: from ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (mail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.119.234]) by relay.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA28875 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:05:52 +0100 (MET) Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de (relay.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.212]) by ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA14456 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:05:53 +0100 Received: from nets5.rz.rwth-aachen.de (nets5.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.13]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f0585sU20816 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:05:54 +0100 (MET) Received: from campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.116.240]) by nets5.rz.rwth-aachen.de (8.10.1/8.10.1/5) with ESMTP id f0585qm17198 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:05:52 +0100 (MET) Received: from diabolo.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (diabolo.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.53.122]) by campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (8.9.1a/8.9.1/3) with ESMTP id JAA15692 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:05:52 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: Return-Path: X-Sender: blume@diabolo.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE x-mime-autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by relay.urz.uni-heidelberg.de id JAA28877 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: templates for page layout Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:33:59 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: From: "Achim Blumensath" Sender: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" To: "Multiple recipients of list LATEX-L" Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3639 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C076EE.5BC05800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Lars Hellstr=F6m wrote: > At 08.55 +0100 2001-01-02, Achim Blumensath wrote: > >> >I've written some templates to specify the page layout. > >> > >> Looks nice. [NB: I haven't got the page with me right now, so I = might > >> remember some of the following incorrectly. Anyway:] I especially = like the > >> golden ratio template, but shouldn't one determine the text height = from the > >> width rather than the other way around? > > > >Well, I don't know what is more natural in practice, but since the = height > >should be a multiple of \baselineskip while there are no restrictions = on > >the width (except for an upper bound) I chose this direction. > > The reason you should determine the text width first is that the width = of a > line is very important for how easy a text is to read: if the line is = too > long then it is hard to find the beginning of the next line. For many = of > the common paper formats (e.g. A4) it is more often this than the > \paperwidth that is the bound you need to consider. That's what I meant with `upper bound'. On the other hand, it doesn't matter much whether the text width is, say, 340pt or 345pt. Perhaps the ideal order would be, given a maximal value for the text width and the ratio height/width: text-height =3D (ratio * max-text-width) rounded to multiples of baseline-skip text-width =3D text-height / ratio > >> The main unresolved problem (which probably should be handled in = connection > >> to the page layout) is however how the text height and main galley = height > >> should be related (I have written about that before), but I you = would need > >> support from the output routine to sort that one out. I think it should be optional whether page heads and foots contribute to the dimensions of the textblock. But in all cases the typesetting of the textblock should be done without them. Perhaps one could simply include two attributes head-height and foot-height and change the above formulae to text-height =3D round (ratio * max-text-width - head-height - = foot-height) text-width =3D (text-height + head-height + foot-height) / ratio > One interesting advantage of putting the page head and foot logically > inside the text rectangle is that one can (to some extent) ensure the = main > galley height satsifies the multiple-of-\baselineskip restriction by > modifying the \headsep and \footsep. In most designs there is probably = a > range of acceptable values available. I don't think this is a good idea since it would result in the textblock having different positions/sizes on each page. Achim ________________________________________________________________________ | \_____/ = | Achim Blumensath \O/ \___/\ = | Mathematische Grundlagen der Informatik =3Do=3D \ = /\ \| www-mgi.informatik.rwth-aachen.de/~blume /"\ = o----| ____________________________________________________________________\___|= ------_=_NextPart_001_01C076EE.5BC05800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: templates for page layout

Hello,

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Lars Hellstr=F6m wrote:
> At 08.55 +0100 2001-01-02, Achim Blumensath = wrote:
> >> >I've written some templates to = specify the page layout.
> >>
> >> Looks nice. [NB: I haven't got the page = with me right now, so I might
> >> remember some of the following = incorrectly. Anyway:] I especially like the
> >> golden ratio template, but shouldn't = one determine the text height from the
> >> width rather than the other way = around?
> >
> >Well, I don't know what is more natural in = practice, but since the height
> >should be a multiple of \baselineskip while = there are no restrictions on
> >the width (except for an upper bound) I = chose this direction.
>
> The reason you should determine the text width = first is that the width of a
> line is very important for how easy a text is to = read: if the line is too
> long then it is hard to find the beginning of = the next line. For many of
> the common paper formats (e.g. A4) it is more = often this than the
> \paperwidth that is the bound you need to = consider.

That's what I meant with `upper bound'. On the other = hand, it doesn't
matter much whether the text width is, say, 340pt or = 345pt. Perhaps the
ideal order would be, given a maximal value for the = text width and the
ratio height/width:

  text-height =3D (ratio * max-text-width) = rounded to multiples of
          &nbs= p;     baseline-skip

  text-width =3D text-height / ratio

> >> The main unresolved problem (which = probably should be handled in connection
> >> to the page layout) is however how the = text height and main galley height
> >> should be related (I have written about = that before), but I you would need
> >> support from the output routine to sort = that one out.

I think it should be optional whether page heads and = foots contribute to
the dimensions of the textblock. But in all cases the = typesetting of the
textblock should be done without them. Perhaps one = could simply include
two attributes head-height and foot-height and change = the above formulae
to

  text-height =3D round (ratio * max-text-width - = head-height - foot-height)

  text-width  =3D (text-height + head-height = + foot-height) / ratio

> One interesting advantage of putting the page = head and foot logically
> inside the text rectangle is that one can (to = some extent) ensure the main
> galley height satsifies the = multiple-of-\baselineskip restriction by
> modifying the \headsep and \footsep. In most = designs there is probably a
> range of acceptable values available.

I don't think this is a good idea since it would = result in the textblock
having different positions/sizes on each page.

Achim
________________________________________________________________= ________
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;  | \_____/ |
   Achim = Blumensath          &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;       \O/ \___/\ |
   Mathematische Grundlagen der = Informatik          &nb= sp;        =3Do=3D  \ /\ = \|
   = www-mgi.informatik.rwth-aachen.de/~blume     &nb= sp;            = /"\   o----|
________________________________________________________________= ____\___|

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