Received: from webgate.proteosys.de (mail.proteosys-ag.com [62.225.9.49]) by lucy.proteosys (8.11.0/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) with ESMTP id f057q6p28466 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:52:06 +0100 Received: by webgate.proteosys.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f057qF724687 . for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:52:15 +0100 Received: from mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailserver1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.30]) by mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f057q5027271 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:52:05 +0100 (MET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C076EC.65E15700" Received: from mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.57]) by mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24191 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:52:04 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (mail.listserv.gmd.de [192.88.97.5]) by mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f057q4027267 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:52:04 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (192.88.97.5) by mail.listserv.gmd.de (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <1.3CB21314@mail.listserv.gmd.de>; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 8:52:03 +0100 Received: from RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 477726 for LATEX-L@RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:52:00 +0100 Received: from ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (mail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.119.234]) by relay.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA28738 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:51:58 +0100 (MET) Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de (relay.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.212]) by ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA24690 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:51:59 +0100 Received: from moutvdom00.kundenserver.de (moutvdom00.kundenserver.de [195.20.224.149]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f057q0U14388 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:52:00 +0100 (MET) Received: from [195.20.224.208] (helo=mrvdom01.schlund.de) by moutvdom00.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14ERfL-0005rS-00 for LATEX-L@urz.uni-heidelberg.de; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:51:59 +0100 Received: from pd9502cce.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([217.80.44.206] helo=servus) by mrvdom01.schlund.de with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14EReL-0002S9-00 for LATEX-L@URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:51:54 +0100 Organization: Art & Satz References: Return-Path: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: templates for page layout Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 07:50:19 +0100 Message-ID: <002601c076e3$ce2a3420$78e2fea9@servus> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: From: "Ulrich Dirr" Sender: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" To: "Multiple recipients of list LATEX-L" Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3638 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C076EC.65E15700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lars Hellstr=F6m" To: "Multiple recipients of list LATEX-L" = Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 4:29 PM Subject: Re: templates for page layout > >What is the > >difference between text height and main galley height? > > The text height and width are the side lengths of the text rectangle, = in > which all the non-marginal text should appear. In traditional book design, > the size and position of this rectangle is one of the very first = things you > determine. The main galley height, or \vsize, is by contrast a = parameter > for TeX's page builder: the wanted height of the main vertical list > material that is will be sent to the output routine in \box255. = Current > LaTeX makes no difference between these two concepts, but I think LaTeX2e* > should. The main galley height is subject to various technical restrictions > (when you're not \sloppy and the page hardly has any stretchability = then > you want it to be a multiple of the \baselineskip _plus_ one = \topskip), but > the right way to manage that is not to leave it as restrictions on the > basic layout, instead it should be handled by some more technical set = of > templates which might for example round it as necessary. I think you should keep in mind the traditional meaning of the main = galley. And a clear distinction between design concepts (parameters for book design) and typesetting (here: parameters for breaking the galley into pages) should be made. May be this could direct the view not only to one page or page spread ... > >In my templates > >text height is the height of the text block without page head and = foot but > >including footnotes and floats. > > That's the way the current output routine does it, yes, but it is not = the > way it should be done. E.g. a headings pagestyle page head is visually part > of the text rectangle and therefore its height should be included in = the > \textheight parameter. Another thing which should be included in > \textheight is the (expected) depth of the page box; I doubt anyone = would > want to claim that the descenders on the last line of a page are = outside > the text rectangle, but that is how the current output routine puts = them. > The page builder ignores the depth when it determines the page break. > > One interesting advantage of putting the page head and foot logically > inside the text rectangle is that one can (to some extent) ensure the main > galley height satsifies the multiple-of-\baselineskip restriction by > modifying the \headsep and \footsep. In most designs there is probably = a > range of acceptable values available. For book design an empty running head or a footer with only the page = count isn't part of the text corpus. But in other designs header and footers could be regarded part of. On the other hand they are completely = (usually) uninteresting for typesetting the main body. Ulrich Dirr -- Art & Satz Ulrich Dirr Arnimstra=DFe 9 81369 M=FCnchen Germany/Deutschland -- fon (+49 89) 743 30 60 fax (+49 89) 743 30 61 email ud@art-satz.de -- -=3D*:-) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C076EC.65E15700 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: templates for page layout

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lars Hellstr=F6m" = <Lars.Hellstrom@MATH.UMU.SE>
To: "Multiple recipients of list LATEX-L" = <LATEX-L@URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE>
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: templates for page layout

> >What is the
> >difference between text height and main = galley height?
>
> The text height and width are the side lengths = of the text rectangle, in
> which all the non-marginal text should appear. = In traditional book
design,
> the size and position of this rectangle is one = of the very first things
you
> determine. The main galley height, or \vsize, is = by contrast a parameter
> for TeX's page builder: the wanted height of the = main vertical list
> material that is will be sent to the output = routine in \box255. Current
> LaTeX makes no difference between these two = concepts, but I think
LaTeX2e*
> should. The main galley height is subject to = various technical
restrictions
> (when you're not \sloppy and the page hardly has = any stretchability then
> you want it to be a multiple of the = \baselineskip _plus_ one \topskip),
but
> the right way to manage that is not to leave it = as restrictions on the
> basic layout, instead it should be handled by = some more technical set of
> templates which might for example round it as = necessary.

I think you should keep in mind the traditional = meaning of the main galley.
And a clear distinction between design concepts = (parameters for book
design) and typesetting (here: parameters for = breaking the galley into
pages) should be made. May be this could direct the = view not only to one
page or page spread ...


> >In my templates
> >text height is the height of the text block = without page head and foot
but
> >including footnotes and floats.
>
> That's the way the current output routine does = it, yes, but it is not the
> way it should be done. E.g. a headings pagestyle = page head is visually
part
> of the text rectangle and therefore its height = should be included in the
> \textheight parameter. Another thing which = should be included in
> \textheight is the (expected) depth of the page = box; I doubt anyone would
> want to claim that the descenders on the last = line of a page are outside
> the text rectangle, but that is how the current = output routine puts them.
> The page builder ignores the depth when it = determines the page break.
>
> One interesting advantage of putting the page = head and foot logically
> inside the text rectangle is that one can (to = some extent) ensure the
main
> galley height satsifies the = multiple-of-\baselineskip restriction by
> modifying the \headsep and \footsep. In most = designs there is probably a
> range of acceptable values available.

For book design an empty running head or a footer with = only the page count
isn't part of the text corpus. But in other designs = header and footers
could be regarded part of. On the other hand they are = completely (usually)
uninteresting for typesetting the main body.


Ulrich Dirr

--
Art & Satz
Ulrich Dirr
Arnimstra=DFe 9
81369 M=FCnchen
Germany/Deutschland
--
fon (+49 89) 743 30 60
fax (+49 89) 743 30 61
email ud@art-satz.de
--
-=3D*:-)

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