Received: via tmail-4.1(11) (invoked by user schoepf) for schoepf; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 01:24:50 +0200 (MEST) Received: from mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.56]) by mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03926 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 01:24:50 +0200 (MEST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C029A3.4C20CD00" Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (mail.listserv.gmd.de [192.88.97.5]) by mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id e8SNOnG08007 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 01:24:49 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (192.88.97.5) by mail.listserv.gmd.de (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <2.86219A6E@mail.listserv.gmd.de>; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 1:24:49 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 471141 for LATEX-L@RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 01:24:46 +0200 Received: from ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (mail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.119.234]) by relay.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA03100 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 01:24:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de (relay.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.212]) by ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA35822 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 01:24:46 +0200 Received: from oxmail.ox.ac.uk (oxmail4.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.33]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19132 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 01:24:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ermine.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.13]) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 13en2j-0007BX-00; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 00:24:45 +0100 Received: from max61.public.ox.ac.uk ([192.76.27.61] helo=spqr2.oucs.ox.ac.uk ident=rahtz) by ermine.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 13en2i-0002XW-00; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 00:24:44 +0100 In-Reply-To: References: Return-Path: X-Mailer: 21.1 (patch 8) "Bryce Canyon" XEmacs Lucid (via feedmail 8 Q); VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 8) "Bryce Canyon" XEmacs Lucid Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: hyperref Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 00:27:15 +0100 Message-ID: <14803.54227.259547.782919@spqr2.oucs.ox.ac.uk> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: From: "Sebastian Rahtz" Sender: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" To: "Multiple recipients of list LATEX-L" Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3623 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C029A3.4C20CD00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robin Fairbairns writes: > such a change would be difficult. now that heiko oberdiek is fully = in > charge (sebastian rahtz was nominally still the maintainer back = then), cruel. that implies that my level of activity on hyperref was comparable to that of my activity on PSNFSS :-} > optimal. we couldn't simply, as a project, take over maintenance of = a > package of such a magnitude as hyperref; so we need to find a > maintainer before bringing it into the ambit the project. I think its more fundamental than that, as discussed as far back as 1993 - hyperref does not fit into the model of LaTeX properly, and rides roigh-shod over LaTeX innards when it feels like it. To add it to "required" would imply that the kernel team felt that it reliably collaborated with kernel packages, which would simply be untrue. To do it right, bits of LaTeX need a rewrite, taking into account the needs of hyperref. This is what Context has done, of course, integrating the stuff into the kernel. Also, hyperref should be split into two a) the package which provides hypertext functionality, acting as a wrapper around driver \specials, and pdftex primitives b) the package which overrides standard LaTeX commands to add new functionality to them, and interfaces with assorted packages I am fairly sure Heiko would agree with me on this Sebastian ------_=_NextPart_001_01C029A3.4C20CD00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: hyperref

Robin Fairbairns writes:
 > such a change would be difficult.  = now that heiko oberdiek is fully in
 > charge (sebastian rahtz was nominally = still the maintainer back then),

cruel. that implies that my level of activity on = hyperref was
comparable to that of my activity on PSNFSS = :-}

 > optimal.  we couldn't simply, as a = project, take over maintenance of a
 > package of such a magnitude as hyperref; = so we need to find a
 > maintainer before bringing it into the = ambit the project.

I think its more fundamental than that, as discussed = as far back as
1993 - hyperref does not fit into the model of LaTeX = properly, and
rides roigh-shod over LaTeX innards when it feels = like it. To add it
to "required" would imply that the kernel = team felt that it reliably
collaborated with kernel packages, which would simply = be untrue.

To do it right, bits of LaTeX need a rewrite, taking = into account the
needs of hyperref. This is what Context has done, of = course,
integrating the stuff into the kernel.

Also, hyperref should be split into two

 a) the package which provides hypertext = functionality, acting as a
    wrapper around driver \specials, = and pdftex primitives

 b) the package which overrides standard LaTeX = commands to add new
    functionality to them, and = interfaces with assorted packages

I am fairly sure Heiko would agree with me on = this

Sebastian

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