Received: via tmail-4.1(11) (invoked by user schoepf) for schoepf; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 23:22:32 +0100 (MET) Received: from mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.56]) by mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25047 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 23:22:32 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (mail.listserv.gmd.de [192.88.97.5]) by mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16434 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 23:22:31 +0100 (MET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01BF6DCB.FF610400" Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (192.88.97.5) by mail.listserv.gmd.de (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <13.C5BA6ACA@mail.listserv.gmd.de>; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 23:22:01 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 449489 for LATEX-L@RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 23:20:43 +0100 Received: from ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (mail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.119.234]) by relay.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA16403 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 23:20:41 +0100 (MET) Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de (relay.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.212]) by ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA23064 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 23:20:40 +0100 Received: from mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.56]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16706 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 23:20:41 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailserver1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.30]) by mailgate1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16409 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 23:22:11 +0100 (MET) Received: from istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de (root@dialin478.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.175.178]) by mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25000 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 23:22:09 +0100 (MET) Received: (from design@localhost) by istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA00444; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 23:03:13 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20000202135912.A29886@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk> References: <001101bf6a7a$145173e0$0bda79c3@ergst> <200001302100.WAA00837@istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de> <004101bf6cef$ff642540$64d979c3@ergst> <20000202135912.A29886@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Return-Path: x-vm-v5-data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]["1912" "Wed" "2" "February" "2000" "23:03:13" "+0100" "Frank Mittelbach" "frank.mittelbach@LATEX-PROJECT.ORG" nil "50" "Re: Comments on templates and xinitials" "^Date:" nil nil "2" nil "Comments on templates and xinitials" nil nil nil]nil) X-Authentication-Warning: istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de: design set sender to design@istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de using -f Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: Comments on templates and xinitials Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 23:03:13 +0100 Message-ID: <200002022203.XAA00444@istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: From: "Frank Mittelbach" Sender: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" To: "Multiple recipients of list LATEX-L" Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3534 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF6DCB.FF610400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable James, sorry to disappoint you but I would like to answer both suggestions with = no. here are the arguments: > > > It kind of feels wrong to me to open up that name space just to = be able to > > > support \"A as an instance name --- but convince me otherwise :-) > > No but it should support =C4. it should not. template names are abstract names of the language and I = like the language portable and this means 7bit visible ascii plus a few extra chars, just like label names. I'm not at all in favour of supporting = inputenc 8 bit in such places. we can talk about that if there is an accepted successor of TeX that = uses unicode as input language. this does not mean that i'm against Ruben's suggested special interface = to initials (or a variation of it) > Many such problems should go away if a font encoding such as T1 or = LY1 is > used. Perhaps T1 should be made the norm for latex2e*? many problems should go away if we switch to T1 or even something better = than T1 but at least a standard 8bit font encoding. but these are different problems that are solved by that switch. now the NO is the following: NO 2e* will not do that switch. 2e* (and = this is why it is called 2e*) will be a package based extension of 2e. in other = words it will run completely on a 2e kernel (and therefore run everywhere = where 2e is installed and at most you have to download a few extra package to = compile a document based on it). once it is have tested and used for a while I then intend to write a new kernel that actually supports it natively, that kernel then may as well = switch the basic encoding but not the 2e* i'm currently trying to build up = (with your help) fair enough? open to discuss those points but note that I will vanish for a few days = to work on output routines and front matter. so don't be surprised that i = haven't replied to other mails and will not reply for any to any mail good night frank ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF6DCB.FF610400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: Comments on templates and xinitials

James,

sorry to disappoint you but I would like to answer = both suggestions with no.

here are the arguments:

 > > > It kind of feels wrong to me to = open up that name space just to be able to
 > > > support \"A as an instance = name --- but convince me otherwise :-)
 >
 > No but it should support =C4.

it should not. template names are abstract names of = the language and I like
the language portable and this means 7bit visible = ascii plus a few extra
chars, just like label names. I'm not at all in = favour of supporting inputenc
8 bit in such places.

we can talk about that if there is an accepted = successor of TeX that uses
unicode as input language.

this does not mean that i'm against Ruben's suggested = special interface to
initials (or a variation of it)


 > Many such problems should go away if a font = encoding such as T1 or LY1 is
 > used. Perhaps T1 should be made the norm = for latex2e*?

many problems should go away if we switch to T1 or = even something better than
T1 but at least a standard 8bit font encoding. but = these are different
problems that are solved by that switch.

now the NO is the following: NO 2e* will not do that = switch. 2e* (and this is
why it is called 2e*) will be a package based = extension of 2e. in other words
it will run completely on a 2e kernel (and therefore = run everywhere where 2e
is installed and at most you have to download a few = extra package to compile a
document based on it).

once it is have tested and used for a while I then = intend to write a new
kernel that actually supports it natively, that = kernel then may as well switch
the basic encoding but not the 2e* i'm currently = trying to build up (with your
help)

fair enough?


open to discuss those points but note that I will = vanish for a few days to
work on output routines and front matter. so don't be = surprised that i haven't
replied to other mails and will not reply for any to = any mail

good night
frank

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