Received: via tmail-4.1(11) (invoked by user schoepf) for schoepf; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:53:52 +0100 (MET) Received: from mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.57]) by mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16207 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:53:51 +0100 (MET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (mail.listserv.gmd.de [192.88.97.5]) by mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29201 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:53:50 +0100 (MET) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01BF677E.AADFD800" Received: from mail.listserv.gmd.de (192.88.97.5) by mail.listserv.gmd.de (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.790B8517@mail.listserv.gmd.de>; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:53:34 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Received: from RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 449809 for LATEX-L@RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:52:21 +0100 Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de (relay.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.212]) by relay.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA09597 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:51:06 +0100 (MET) Received: from mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.57]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03667 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:51:07 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (mailserver1.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.30]) by mailgate2.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29116 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:52:30 +0100 (MET) Received: from istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de (root@dialin376.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.175.76]) by mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16007 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:52:07 +0100 (MET) Received: (from design@localhost) by istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA02307; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:43:42 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200001251624.RAA13149@relay.uni-heidelberg.de> References: <200001141508.QAA00970@istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de> <200001251624.RAA13149@relay.uni-heidelberg.de> Return-Path: x-vm-v5-data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]["2836" "Tue" "25" "January" "2000" "21:43:42" "+0100" "Frank Mittelbach" "frank.mittelbach@LATEX-PROJECT.ORG" nil "64" "Re: templates for galley (paragraph) formatting" "^Date:" nil nil "1" nil nil nil nil nil]nil) X-Authentication-Warning: istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de: design set sender to design@istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de using -f Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: templates for galley (paragraph) formatting Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:43:42 +0100 Message-ID: <200001252043.VAA02307@istrati.zdv.uni-mainz.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: From: "Frank Mittelbach" Sender: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" To: "Multiple recipients of list LATEX-L" Reply-To: "Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3511 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF677E.AADFD800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Michael J. Downes writes: > % justification centerfirst > % > % This instance centers the first line of a paragraph and sets all > % remaining lines as a solid block (including the last line). This > > Is the first line really the same as the remaining text (i.e. a > continuation of the same sentence, rather than a kind of title)?? > Strange. yes it is. perhaps that's british? :-) no it is not strange, it is only strange if you think of applying it to captions where one line is a = title and the rest is actually what other people call the legend. but then there = is the style where the "title" is nothing other than something like "Fig. 5" = and the rest is a long sentence describing the picture or whatever. In such a circumstance layouts like this do make sense (or at least can look attractable, and you can find them once in a while). > There is a related kind of justification problem that is used in AMS > publications: if a figure caption is less than one line in length, > center it, otherwise use block justification: > > |-----------------------------------------------------------| > Figure 1. A short caption > > > |-----------------------------------------------------------| > Figure 2. On the other hand if there is a long caption the > first line should not be centered, the whole caption should > be full-justified like this. > > This is hard to handle by only declarative parameter settings. At = some > level it is necessary to program a test for the length of the text. yes, but why is this difficult for a declarative interface? you are = right that at run time the template needs to do tests to decide what to do but then = it receives the caption text as argument (or so we hope:-) an so can make = test on it. if I remember correctly then i discuss this at some length in the hypothetical example of templates in template.dtx > And > in practice there are some esthetic complications: If the caption = width > is 1.01 of line width, clearly it is better to either leave it on one > line (overfull) or else the justification should use something like = .9 > of linewidth instead of 1.0. right that is difficult, but again not more difficult with a declarative interface, probably less in fact. after all you can give your AMS = designers a template which explicitly offers keys like single-line-overshoot-allowed and if you really want you can make the template smarter and smarter = (like looking if it ends up with two lines only how full the second line is = and then offer a minimum value for this, or ....) point is with the declarative interface you can gradually replace = simpler templates with more complicated ones but all have the same kind of = interface as far as the designer is concerned (and they are all exchangable for = another) frank ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF677E.AADFD800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: templates for galley (paragraph) formatting

Michael J. Downes writes:

 > % justification centerfirst
 > %
 > %    This instance centers = the first line of a paragraph and sets all
 > %    remaining lines as a = solid block (including the last line). This
 >
 > Is the first line really the same as the = remaining text (i.e. a
 > continuation of the same sentence, rather = than a kind of title)??
 > Strange.

yes it is.  perhaps that's british? :-) no it is = not strange, it is only
strange if you think of applying it to captions where = one line is a title and
the rest is actually what other people call the = legend. but then there is the
style where the "title" is nothing other = than something like "Fig. 5" and the
rest is a long sentence describing the picture or = whatever. In such a
circumstance layouts like this do make sense (or at = least can look
attractable, and you can find them once in a = while).


 > There is a related kind of justification = problem that is used in AMS
 > publications: if a figure caption is less = than one line in length,
 > center it, otherwise use block = justification:
 >
 >   = |-----------------------------------------------------------|
 >         =           Figure 1. A short = caption
 >
 >
 >   = |-----------------------------------------------------------|
 >   Figure 2.  On the other = hand  if there is  a long caption the
 >   first line  should not be = centered,  the whole caption should
 >   be full-justified like = this.
 >
 > This is hard to handle by only declarative = parameter settings. At some
 > level it is necessary to program a test = for the length of the text.

yes, but why is this difficult for a declarative = interface? you are right that
at run time the template needs to do tests to decide = what to do but then it
receives the caption text as argument (or so we = hope:-) an so can make test on
it. if I remember correctly then i discuss this at = some length in the
hypothetical example of templates in = template.dtx

 > And
 > in practice there are some esthetic = complications: If the caption width
 > is 1.01 of line width, clearly it is = better to either leave it on one
 > line (overfull) or else the justification = should use something like .9
 > of linewidth instead of 1.0.

right that is difficult, but again not more difficult = with a declarative
interface, probably less in fact. after all you can = give your AMS designers a
template which explicitly offers keys like

 single-line-overshoot-allowed

and if you really want you can make the template = smarter and smarter (like
looking if it ends up with two lines only how full = the second line is and then
offer a minimum value for this, or ....)

point is with the declarative interface you can = gradually replace simpler
templates with more complicated ones but all have the = same kind of interface
as far as the designer is concerned (and they are all = exchangable for another)

frank

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