X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["2464" "Thu" "10" "April" "1997" "20:17:34" "+0200" "Frank Mittelbach" "Frank.Mittelbach@UNI-MAINZ.DE" nil "58" "Re: Small caps is not a shape" "^Date:" nil nil "4" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Received: from listserv.gmd.de (listserv.gmd.de [192.88.97.1]) by mail.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA05156 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 22:50:08 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from listserv.gmd.de by listserv.gmd.de (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <2.FFC4D9E2@listserv.gmd.de>; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 22:50:06 +0200 Received: from RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE by RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 123332 for LATEX-L@RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 22:50:02 +0200 Received: from kralle.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (kralle.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.8.158]) by relay.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.7.6/8.7.4) with ESMTP id WAA29693 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 22:50:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from frank.zdv.uni-mainz.de (Ufrank@localhost) by kralle.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (8.8.5/8.8.5) with UUCP id WAA31898 for LATEX-L@RELAY.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 22:40:23 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: kralle.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE: Ufrank set sender to frank.zdv.uni-mainz.de!latex3 using -f Received: (from latex3@localhost) by frank.zdv.uni-mainz.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA02611; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 20:17:34 +0200 References: <9704101247.AA08131@sgibulirsch6.mathematik.tu-muenchen.de> Message-ID: <199704101817.UAA02611@frank.zdv.uni-mainz.de> Reply-To: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project In-Reply-To: <9704101247.AA08131@sgibulirsch6.mathematik.tu-muenchen.de> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 20:17:34 +0200 From: Frank Mittelbach Sender: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project To: Multiple recipients of list LATEX-L Subject: Re: Small caps is not a shape Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1918 Johannes Kuester writes: > This is to point at a shortcoming of NFSS2: (I don't know whether > this has already been discussed when designed NFSS) this has been discussed both during and after development of NFSS2 > There is such a thing as a slanted/italic small caps font > (see Sebastian Carter's "Typographers on Type" for an example: > it contains a page showing different fonts of the Zapf Renaissance (1986) > family, including such a font). agreed, calling small caps a shape is a simplification. similariy for making, say "outline" a shape > So it doesn't seem appropriate to classify small caps as a shape, > rather, I think, it should be considered as a case. Thus resulting > in control sequences like > \textcaps{...} and {\capscase ...} > or the like, analogous to uppercase and lowercase. again, agreed in principle; having "case" as a further axis to the FSS would be a valid possibility > Unfortunaly I can't think of any way to incorporate this easily > in NFSS and especially in its current interface. it would be easy enough to integrate it in the general model, but there are downsides of it as well: - no way to integrate it into the specification interface without either a horrible syntax or incompatible changes - nfss is designed to model major font use faithfully, adding an additional axis that is only sparsly populated would result in a large number of additional cases where font substitution rules need to be applied. that in turn would either blow up substitution rules ro would result in badly rendered documents. so as far as latex2e is concerned, there will be no modifications (Robin sumarised the reasons for that quite well). I do have plans for a different fss that deals more intelligently with encoding issues and with substitution. for that implementation a fifth "case" axis will be considered (and perhaps even be implemented :-) or perhaps even a more general scheme with arbitrarily many axis', although the latter i do find still questionable. to answer Robin's question: There are many potential axes that NFSS could have incorporated. I don't remember enough of the original papers to be sure off hand how the present set were arrived at. they where derived by emulating common usage taking into account available fonts (both TeX and commercials) to arrive at a flexible scheme that does work in most cases (while still being implementable and manageable frank