X-VM-Message-Order: (1 2 7 8 6 21 10 11 12 14 15 16 20 24 19 18 22 23 17 25 27 9 28 13 26 29 30 4 31 32 35 39 38 34 37 36 33 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 56 57 58 59 61 62 55 65 60 66 64 68 69 67 63 70 3 5 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 89 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 99 100 101 102 105 104 103 106 107 108 109 98 110 112 113 114 115 117 116 118 119 120 121 122 124 125 126 123 127 128 129 130 131 132 134 133 136 137 138 141 135 140 111 142 139 145 146 148 149 144 147 150 152 151 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 143 160) X-VM-Summary-Format: "%n %*%a %-17.17F %-3.3m %2d %4l/%-5c %I\"%s\"\n" X-VM-VHeader: ("Date:" "Resent-Date:" "From:" "Sender:" "Resent-From" "Originally-From:" "Originally-To:" "To:" "Apparently-To:" "Cc:" "Subject:" "Cron:") nil X-VM-Bookmark: 160 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1625" "Tue" " 1" "February" "1994" "11:53:52" "LCL" "Mike Piff" "M.Piff@SHEFFIELD.AC.UK" "<199402011256.AA13773@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de>" "35" "Re: form and content" "^Date:" nil nil "2" "1994020111:53:52" "form and content" nil nil]) Return-Path: Received: from sc.ZIB-Berlin.DE (mailserv) by dagobert.ZIB-Berlin.DE (4.1/SMI-4.0/24.6.93) id AA23542; Tue, 1 Feb 94 13:58:28 +0100 Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de by sc.ZIB-Berlin.DE (4.1/SMI-4.0-sc/03.06.93) id AA09165; Tue, 1 Feb 94 13:56:25 +0100 Received: from tubvm.cs.tu-berlin.de by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de with SMTP id AA13773 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4(mail.m4[1.12]) for <@MAIL.CS.TU-BERLIN.DE:Schoepf@SC.ZIB-BERLIN.DE>); Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:56:22 +0100 Message-Id: <199402011256.AA13773@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de> Received: from TUBVM.CS.TU-BERLIN.DE by tubvm.cs.tu-berlin.de (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 6658; Tue, 01 Feb 94 13:56:18 +0200 Received: from VM.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (NJE origin MAILER@DHDURZ1) by TUBVM.CS.TU-BERLIN.DE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 6657; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:56:18 +0200 Received: from VM.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (NJE origin LISTSERV@DHDURZ1) by VM.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 6519; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:55:50 +0000 Reply-To: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 11:53:52 LCL From: Mike Piff Sender: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project To: Multiple recipients of list LATEX-L Subject: Re: form and content Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1365 %>From: michal@gortel.phys.ualberta.ca (Michal Jaegermann) %>> %>The section and item environments *exist* right *now*, in classic, %>> %>pure LaTeX 2.09, and also in the new LaTeX2e. %>> %>> Now that *was* a revelation, although if I had thought about the macros %>> enough I would have seen it. Now why did Lamport not mention this in his %>> manual? %> %>Lamport DID mention that explicitely and not only in an example, %>although it is not exactly in blazing letters on the very front. %>Check the last sentence of a subsection "Commands and Environments" in %>2.5 on p. 34. %> You are right, and in a sense wrong! For Lamport was careful to distinguish this object called a "declaration" on p17+152 as a command that produces no text but just changes the way that other commands might work. Thus most commands, such as \section or \item would not qualify as declarations; one would not normally scope them. Come to think of it, who would have thought of saying \begin{documentstyle} or \begin{newcommand} for instance? and where do you put the \end{}? I guess the problem is that if you approach LaTeX from the logical point of view, with no knowledge of TeX, then what fixes in the mind is the details like \em is a declaration, declarations can be done as environments, therefore \em can be done as \begin{em}..\end{em}. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %% Dr M J Piff, School of Mathematics and Statistics, University of %% %% Sheffield, UK. e-mail: M.Piff@sheffield.ac.uk %% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%