X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1573" "Thu" "27" "January" "1994" "13:38:22" "+0000" "Paul Taylor" "pt@DOC.IC.AC.UK" "<199401271406.AA06561@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de>" "35" "article.\"style\"" "^Date:" nil nil "1" "1994012713:38:22" "article.\"style\"" (number " " mark " Paul Taylor Jan 27 35/1573 " thread-indent "\"article.\"style\"\"\n") nil]) Return-Path: Received: from sc.ZIB-Berlin.DE (mailserv) by dagobert.ZIB-Berlin.DE (4.1/SMI-4.0/24.6.93) id AA11840; Thu, 27 Jan 94 15:06:40 +0100 Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de by sc.ZIB-Berlin.DE (4.1/SMI-4.0-sc/03.06.93) id AA03490; Thu, 27 Jan 94 15:06:37 +0100 Received: from tubvm.cs.tu-berlin.de by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de with SMTP id AA06561 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4(mail.m4[1.12]) for <@MAIL.CS.TU-BERLIN.DE:Schoepf@SC.ZIB-BERLIN.DE>); Thu, 27 Jan 1994 15:06:33 +0100 Message-Id: <199401271406.AA06561@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de> Received: from TUBVM.CS.TU-BERLIN.DE by tubvm.cs.tu-berlin.de (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 2191; Thu, 27 Jan 94 14:41:10 +0200 Received: from VM.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (NJE origin MAILER@DHDURZ1) by TUBVM.CS.TU-BERLIN.DE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 2189; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 14:41:10 +0200 Received: from VM.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (NJE origin LISTSERV@DHDURZ1) by VM.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 7170; Thu, 27 Jan 1994 14:40:46 +0000 Reply-To: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 13:38:22 +0000 From: Paul Taylor Sender: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project To: Multiple recipients of list LATEX-L Subject: article."style" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1323 William T. Trotter invited us to > Count me as among those who think it is particularly unattractive > - independent of any discussion about paper sizes. Sebastian (I think) made similar comments last week. It is depressing how many books you see nowadays that have been printed in more or less the distrubution book.sty. Looking into the code for article.cls, it seems that the principle that for efficient reading there should be approximately 65 characters on a line has been built in. I grant you that this is an accepted principle of book design, though my feeling is that when technical material dominates text the considerations change. However we seem to have a consensus that any claim that the standard LaTeX styles are good design is simply laughable. This is one of many differences between compatibility and native mode which will upset users and make them less likely to change over. (I have only been able to run LaTeX2e in compatibility mode because there is too wide a gulf between native mode and existing macro packages.) Now that the paper size is to be declared to LaTeX, I suggest that the default text area should be as large as will reasonably fit on the page (maybe on the overlap of A4 and American so-called "letter" size). Then we'll be doing our bit for the world's forests by halving the paper consumption of LaTeX. Paul PS From the point of view of the "design" implicit in the standard styles, the principle that they should look as horrible as possible seems not so unreasonable. Then people will be forced to think about design.