Message-Id: <199401262316.AA18264@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de>
Reply-To: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project <LATEX-L@DHDURZ1.BITNET>
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 1994 16:49:23 CST
From: "George D. Greenwade" <bed_gdg@SHSU.EDU>
Sender: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project <LATEX-L@DHDURZ1.BITNET>
To: Multiple recipients of list LATEX-L <LATEX-L@DHDURZ1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Changing default preloads
Status: R

On Wed, 26 Jan 1994 16:35:21 LCL, Mike Piff <M.Piff@SHEFFIELD.AC.UK>
posted:
> Most likely everyone will object to using anything *other* than
> \documentstyle, and it seems to me that there are going to be an endlessly
> growing list of parameter declarations (call them classes if you like) that
> everyone will need to use at their site. This is getting like Ada and
> Modula- 2 programming, where you need to declare packages and identifiers
> from packages all over the place to make things work.

Agreed.  The more things are changed, the more likely people will be
alienated.  Over time, they may become concordant with the new designs, but
I feel sure that more than a few people will object to what they believe
they've learned to be "standard" LaTeX.  Why?  Mainly because the learning
curve begins anew.

> Is there no mechansism to allow options to be pre-loaded at iniTeX stage,
> and then to get these options to announce themselves to you whenever you
> LaTeX something? Most users wouldn't need to worry about these details
> then. Their paper would be A4, language English, date day/month/year, time
> 12hr clock, font encoding OT1, currency symbol pounds, etc.
>
> I am now in favour of a more open approach to LaTeX. Make everything
> general enough to do almost anything, ban @ in control words, and let
> anyone redefine any ``internal'' control word he likes if it makes things
> work.

This is the funny edge all of TeX is -- or at least seems to me to be --
walking on.  Can any package be everything to everyone?  No; indeed most
products attempting to meet this goal end up being nothing to anyone.  The
easier it is for an everyday user to type in:
\i-wanna-begin-my-text
[text deleted]
\done--print-this-darn-thing
for the majority of their documents, the better.  After all, LaTeX is
merely a product which creates very nice output {\em without} having to "do
TeX" in the eyes of many, if not most, users.  Certainly, this is not the
case in the sense of the developers and most of the people who will
eventually read this, but it has to be admitted that the developers and
readers of this post are in the significant minority among LaTeX users.

If any product gets too complex or changes too radically too quickly,
people will switch to something else.  The idea of extensibility is great
-- so long as you only have to deal with the pains of extensibility when
you want to extend something.  Should the ideas going into LaTeX3 be
dropped?  {\em NO,} good lord, there are too many good ideas already under
works!  Should all of the ideas going into LaTeX3 be something all users
have to deal with everytime they want to create a document?  {\em NO!}
That is, unless the goal is to create a less user-friendly atmosphere or to
create a product used by technocrats -- very likely the minority of all
present LaTeX users -- who are seeking to amaze and amuse their colleagues
with how neat it is, or if the goal is for the developers to "gee whiz"
each other with their elegant approaches which, in reality, cause nothing
but headaches for end users who have no use for their wizardry.

In the alternative, should there be good, readily available, supported,
documented, easily interfacable, and official extensions allowing for the
varied typographical needs of users in different fields and languages which
may optionally be used when needed (note that this means some users will be
enabled to view the quirks of English as the optional language) -- and not
otherwise addressed, nor necessarily even learned by users -- to improve
the product?  {\em PRECISELY!}

I sincerely hope that this is the general direction this is headed.  The
fewer the keystrokes between:
\I-have-to-type-in-all-of-this-preamble-garbage
and whatever equivalent to:
\bye
are required, the more welcomed this upgrade of LaTeX will be received.
The reception by users, moreso than the wizardry of what can be imposed
upon everyone, is what ought to be addressed, IMO.

Enough normativism from a naive everyday LaTeX user.

Regards,   George
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George D. Greenwade, Ph.D.                            Bitnet:  BED_GDG@SHSU
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P. O. Box 2118                                        FAX:   (409) 294-3612
Sam Houston State University              Internet:        bed_gdg@SHSU.edu
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