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Date:         Thu, 16 Dec 93 23:15:01 +0100
From: Frank Mittelbach <MITTELBACH@mzdmza.zdv.uni-mainz.de>
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Subject:      forward from Paul Taylor concerning floats etc.
Status: R


From:	VZDMZA::IN%"pt@doc.ic.ac.uk"  "Paul Taylor" 16-DEC-1993 22:45:57.84
To:	IN%"mittelbach@MZDMZA.ZDV.UNI-MAINZ.DE"
CC:	
Subj:	floats & use of LaTeX-3 list

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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 20:56:50 +0000
From: Paul Taylor <pt@doc.ic.ac.uk>
Subject: floats & use of LaTeX-3 list
To: mittelbach@MZDMZA.ZDV.UNI-MAINZ.DE
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Please forward this to LATEX-L. Thanks.

(1) Who is in charge of the LATEX-L@DHDURZ1.EARN list? I tried sending
something to it today (below) but got "you are not authorised to send
to LATEX-L" back from it.  I've had this before, and also an exchange
of messages with the program which told me to re-subscribe, so I did,
then it told me I wasn't on theelist any more, so I subscribed again,
and it told me I was already on it.  An *extremely* stupid program, IMHO.

(2) Can you persuade people not to use the "vacation" program, or to
program it not to reply to LATEX-L, or get the LATEX-L program to insert
the appropriate headers to stop the vacation program from replying.
I don't want to hear about everyone's xmas holidays, thank you.

(3) Finally, my submission:

I am inclined to agree with Mike Barr on this subject, that floats
are to be avoided altogether.

When my users ask me why their figures appear in peculiar places
(or not at all) I tell them directly "LaTeX floats don't work".
I have a few of them in the book I'm writing, but only to stop
TeX choking on large items. I don't expect them to appear in any
sensible place, and intend simply to place the items where I want
them on the page when the book is finished.  I tell users to do
likewise.

I think the moral of the discussion of "clever ideas" for placing
floats (and it must be said that latex.tex contains "clever" code)
is that it is not possible to do it automatically.

I suggest that LaTeX-3 should have a VERY SIMPLE algortithm for
float placement, ie one whose behaviour is predictable by users
and NOT clever. The effect will probably be that most of their
figures will actually appear where they want them.

The exiting LaTeX-2.09 float placement algorithm, together with
contributed code for doing other "clever" things, should be offered
as non-core options.

Paul