Message-Id: <9302081836.AA02240@sc.zib-berlin.dbp.de>
Reply-To: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project <LATEX-L@vm.urz.Uni-Heidelberg.de>
Date:         Mon, 8 Feb 93 10:38:54 CST
From: "George D. Greenwade" <bed_gdg@SHSU.EDU>
Sender: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project <LATEX-L@vm.urz.Uni-Heidelberg.de>
To: Multiple Recipients of <LATEX-L@vm.urz.Uni-Heidelberg.de>
Subject:      RE: task list, diagrams in particular
Status: R


On Mon, 8 Feb 93 13:14:02 +0000, Paul Taylor <pt@DOC.IC.AC.UK> posted to
<LATEX-L%DHDURZ1.BITNET@vm.gmd.de>:
> > George Greenwade has recently mailed to a sub-list:
> > One of the enumerated responsibilities outlined for task coordinators in
> > the ``Volunteer work for the LaTeX3 project'' document is:
> > > The second job of a task coordinator is to write a `task specification'
> > > containing more details than were in the volunteer task list. It should
> > > describe the goals and any restrictions that apply. This task
       specification
> > > will need to be reviewed by someone on the LaTeX3 kernel team, and
> > > afterwards it can be sent out to any additional volunteers for the same
> > > task, as a guide for the work.
> but it seems more appropriate to reply to the general latex 3 list.

This is a verbatim extract from the task list document.  I am not copping
out on this, but the well-published instructions were to return to the core
team the revised description.  As I am not a member of the core team, I can
only surmise the following reason for this step in the process prior to
going public: If there is an identifiable point where the task can be
reduced into further tasks to be expanded to incorporate what were believed
to be multiple tasks, it is best to attempt to coordinate the modification.
Alternately, if something within a task causes a conflict with another
task, it is best to figure out the best approach to ameliorate the problem
early on, rather than after everyone's "final" work is completed.
Basically, if the tasks can be consolidated behind the scenes, with the
complete knowledge of the core team, it will very probably enhance the
overall efforts of everyone involved by reducing redundancies, identifying
where practical application of the theoretical goals are inconsistent, etc.
Again, these are simply what I surmise and not to be construed as anything
even approaching an official statement from the core team.

> I agreed in October to be "co-ordinator" for commutative diagrams (in
> category theory (pure mathematics) and theoretical computer science) and
> expected to receive some comments on this subject from other who are
> interested (Kris Rose, for example), but got nothing.

This has been a concern of mine since the start.  This is also why I have
attempted to always announce whenever someone has graciously volunteered to
coordinate a task or join as a volunteer to a task where a coordinator has
already been established -- so people who may have been waiting in the
wings willing to volunteer on the task but unwilling for whatever reason to
coordinate it or be the first volunteer might get in contact with the
identifiable task coordinator.  Given that I have had virtually no feedback
from the coordinators, I have assumed that each was somehow coordinating
his area to his satisfaction.  Possibly this has been in error; if so, I
have failed and I apologize.

> The "task list" says that what I am supposed to do should take "2-3 days".
> Now the programming I have done has taken two orders of magnitude more time
> than that, so I'm a bit puzzled as to what job does take that long. I'm
> also a bit worried by the language of the rest of George's message, which
> sounds like that that is used by middle managers in large organisations to
> their juniors :-).

I am wholly inadequately skilled in programming in the various areas to
state why what time was specified.  My guess is that you have gone to the
next level with your efforts which indeed took more time than originally
specified (the complete package you have available sort of suggests this to
me).  A very real concern which I naively see is whether or not what you
have done can be incorporated into the LaTeX3 proect without further
modification.  This is why the core team needs to be appraised of where
things stand, IMO.  I am not flaming you about this; again, I probably
failed in not mentioning the revised specification earlier in the project.

Regarding my wording: I sincerely apologize if it was in any way, shape, or
form offensive.  By no means was it intended to be anything more than a
clinical wording of what the responsibilities which the coordinators have
(at least implicitly) agreed to and my responsibility to the core team to
encourage compliance.  Among everyone involved in the LaTeX3 project, I am
very likely the least technically competent from a programming perspective.
At best, I can be described as the naive end user whose involvement in the
project is watching a very powerful tool being created and facilitating as
best I can some level of communications between interested parties.

> The code I have written is not LaTeX-specific, but I am happy to co-operate
> with the LaTeX-3 project. I suspect that this is the position of other task
> co-ordinators, at least in "applications" areas.  Maybe, George, you could
> give us more guidance on how to proceed in co-ordinating the efforts of
> those who already have their own separate up-and-running applications
> macros, as is the case for Kris Rose and myself, for example.

This is where I recommend turning in the revised task specification to the
core team.  This will very likely give them a much better idea of where
things stand, as well as what aspects of the kernel are critical for what
areas.  Again, this is only my guess and not official in any way, shape, or
form, but I imagine that once the core team is able to see where things
stand, they will provide some insight on where conformity between the
various aspects of the total project need to properly interact.

> Now turning to my "task" in particular, I have in mind to write to those,
> including Kris, who have worked in this area. Maybe there are other readers
> of this list who have something to contribute, and I would like to hear (by
> private email) from them. I haven't drafted the letter yet.

Again, I believe an overview of where things now stand really ought to be
reviewed by the core team prior to any further development.  I expect that
they will graciously and appreciatively review everything done to date.
Given that you have a package, the very real question still stands as to
whether or not it is extensible into the LaTeX3 project without requiring
modifications in some other dimension of the project.  Each task which has
been enumerated in the master task list is part and parcel of the total
coordinated LaTeX3 package which I fully believe everyone is working
toward.  Precisely how this puzzle of powerful, specialized, but
generalizable units finally fits together to create LaTeX3 is a question
which clearly must be addressed by the core team designing the kernel.  To
do otherwise is to create a number of stand-alone packages which may or may
not have a consistent interface or require dimensions of TeX to be brought
in or left out which may wreak havoc on someone else's task.  I do not
believe anyone involved in this project wants that.

If I have unintentionally offended an adequate number of coordinators, or
if the core team feels that I have adequately mishandled my duties as
coordinator of coordinators, I will offer my resignation from my position
past haste.  My expertise is by no means mission critical to achieve the
goals of the LaTeX3 project, but each of yours is.

Regards,   George
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
George D. Greenwade, Ph.D.                            Bitnet:  BED_GDG@SHSU
Department of Economics and Business Analysis         THEnet: SHSU::BED_GDG
College of Business Administration                    Voice: (409) 294-1266
P. O. Box 2118                                        FAX:   (409) 294-3612
Sam Houston State University              Internet:        bed_gdg@SHSU.edu
Huntsville, TX 77341                      bed_gdg%SHSU.decnet@relay.the.net
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%