Message-Id: <9210011105.AA21825@sc.zib-berlin.dbp.de>
Reply-To: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project <LATEX-L@vm.urz.Uni-Heidelberg.de>
In-Reply-To:  <9210010116.AA21001@odin.diku.dk>
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 92 12:02:56 +0100
From: "Kristoffer H. Rose" <kris@DIKU.DK>
Sender: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project <LATEX-L@vm.urz.Uni-Heidelberg.de>
To: Multiple recipients of <LATEX-L@vm.urz.Uni-Heidelberg.de>
Subject:      Re: picture mode in LaTeX3/additional fonts in distribution
Status: R


Frank Mittelbach <MITTELBACH@MZDMZA.ZDV.UNI-MAINZ.DE> writes:

> Leslie and I spoke about the picture environment just last week when he
> visited me. We think that LaTeX3 should support a much richer picture
> environment which is based on interacting with PostScript via a
> suitable set of specials. We will also approach driver developers to
> support those specials for other output devices. But there will also
> be an implementation of the LaTeX3 graphic primitives that solemnly
> uses portable fonts. This means that, for example, an arbitray line
> may come out slightly distorted when this option is in force (just
> like in the current epic.sty) but this is better then nothing.

IMHO, the following is such an important property of the LaTeX3
project that it deserves to be put in a box:

     * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
     * The LaTeX 3 REFERENCE VERSION should be in STANDARD TeX *
     * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The reason for this is simple: any `standard extension' to LaTeX3
should run on any `standard LaTeX3' without compromising the quality
of the output.  Any other principle is opening a can of worms---as an
author I would HATE if a diagram that was pretty in my draft got
"slightly distorted" in a book because the publisher's STANDARD TeX
installation is not based on PostScript!  Thus I disagree strongly
with Frank's last "but this is better then nothing"---in my opinion
this is worse than nothing.

As the author of XY-pic I will claim that staying within standard TeX
is in fact possible without compromising on the quality of the typeset
output (although heavy graphics does require big TeX and MetaFonts).
I am continuing the development of and support for XY-pic (e.g., v2.7
to be released shortly has squiggly and wavy lines).  This package
already includes an elaborate set of `graphics primitives' (the
documentation of these just hasn't been updated since v1.40 due to
lack of interest from the community that is just using the `diagram'
frontend).

XY-pic is freely available, and thus also for LaTeX3.  It will
continue to be freely available and I will continue to help to make it
compatible with any used TeX format (the list currently includes plain
TeX, LaTeX 2.09, AMS-TeX, and AMS-LaTeX)---in particular I will also
make it run as a `standard extension module' for LaTeX3 as soon as the
guidelines for how this should be done are available.

If the LaTeX 3 designers are planning something substatially more
powerful than XY-pic as the `LaTeX 3 picture mode' then I have no
objections.  But if the intentions are similar in spirit to those of
XY-pic then I suggest to base it on this package that already has a
user base in the thousands.

Regards,
______________________________________________________________________
Kristoffer H{\o}gsbro ROSE                      Internet: kris@diku.dk
DIKU (TOPPS group), University of Copenhagen       Voice: +45 35321420
Universitetsparken 1, DK-2100 Copenhagen {\O}        Fax: +45 35321401